150th Anniversary of the Civil War

Double J · Apr 12, 2011

Michael_ Gee said:

A country that was primarily a nation of small farmers or people living in small towns to provide services to farmers was full of young men with no resistance to infectious diseases as they joined amateur armies with no idea of sanitation. Hell, in those days, the mosquitoes in the South carried diseases no Northern kid had any native immunity for.
Medical care had advanced from the Revolution, but not by much. I think World War I was the first war in human history where more people died of wounds than of disease and famine.
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My great-great-grandfather served with a New Hampshire infantry regiment. So did his brother. The brother enlisted on August 23, 1864, and died on September 8 in Virginia, probably without ever having seen combat.

hondo · Apr 12, 2011

Shoeless Joe said:

Actually, that it was only about slavery is your revisionist history. It was as much about Northern aggression as anything when Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers to invade the South. The war had many causes with no single one standing out.

To quote Lincoln himself in a letter to Horace Greeley:

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt. I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
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The South needed to be invaded because it illegally seceded from the Union. They brought it on themselves.

hondo · Apr 12, 2011

Football_Bat said:

Starman said:

Asserting that slavery was not the overwhelmingly dominant reason for the Civil War is not a good way to start.
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Slavery boiled down to the root cause, and Lincoln made it the main issue in prosecuting the war and rallying Union (free state) support for it.

At the outset, the war started because of economic differences between North and South (darn slaves taking good farm jobs from the white folk) and states rights (which again reflected the question of how slavery should be legislated). Not to mention the abolitionist Lincoln's election itself and his predecessor Buchanan's unwillingness to address the differences. But when you get to the bottom of it, yes, it was slavery.
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And the war was actually a classic case of poor boys fighting a rich man's war. The plantation owners sent the underclass of the south out to die so they could stay rich. Doubt that? Read "The State of Jones."

Shoeless Joe · Apr 12, 2011

Double J said:

Michael_ Gee said:

A country that was primarily a nation of small farmers or people living in small towns to provide services to farmers was full of young men with no resistance to infectious diseases as they joined amateur armies with no idea of sanitation. Hell, in those days, the mosquitoes in the South carried diseases no Northern kid had any native immunity for.
Medical care had advanced from the Revolution, but not by much. I think World War I was the first war in human history where more people died of wounds than of disease and famine.
Click to expand...

My great-great-grandfather served with a New Hampshire infantry regiment. So did his brother. The brother enlisted on August 23, 1864, and died on September 8 in Virginia, probably without ever having seen combat.
Click to expand...

That's rough. My great-great-great grandfather made it through the war unharmed - being captured at Vicksburg, paroled, only to return home and rejoin the fighting - then after the war died of natural causes at the ripe old age of 41! (I really guess it's a good thing he wasn't captured a second time because I'm pretty sure having been paroled and promsing not to fight again, he probably would have been shot).

Brian · Apr 12, 2011

Apropos of nothing, I was looking up something about Lincoln today because of the anniversary and stumbled upon the fact that John Tyler has two living grandsons.

John bleeping Tyler...who was president in the 1840s.

Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!! · Apr 12, 2011

Brian said:

Apropos of nothing, I was looking up something about Lincoln today because of the anniversary and stumbled upon the fact that John Tyler has two living grandsons.

John bleeping Tyler...who was president in the 1840s.
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Wow... How old are they?

Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!! · Apr 12, 2011

hondo said:

Football_Bat said:

Starman said:

Asserting that slavery was not the overwhelmingly dominant reason for the Civil War is not a good way to start.
Click to expand...

Slavery boiled down to the root cause, and Lincoln made it the main issue in prosecuting the war and rallying Union (free state) support for it.

At the outset, the war started because of economic differences between North and South (darn slaves taking good farm jobs from the white folk) and states rights (which again reflected the question of how slavery should be legislated). Not to mention the abolitionist Lincoln's election itself and his predecessor Buchanan's unwillingness to address the differences. But when you get to the bottom of it, yes, it was slavery.
Click to expand...

And the war was actually a classic case of poor boys fighting a rich man's war. The plantation owners sent the underclass of the south out to die so they could stay rich. Doubt that? Read "The State of Jones."
Click to expand...

Yeah, slavery was really more of a subplot in the Civil War.
Seriously.

Shoeless Joe · Apr 12, 2011

hondo said:

Shoeless Joe said:

Actually, that it was only about slavery is your revisionist history. It was as much about Northern aggression as anything when Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers to invade the South. The war had many causes with no single one standing out.

To quote Lincoln himself in a letter to Horace Greeley:

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt. I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
Click to expand...

The South needed to be invaded because it illegally seceded from the Union. They brought it on themselves.
Click to expand...

Illegally? Specifically cite the law that was broken, please.

Big Circus · Apr 12, 2011

Brian said:

Apropos of nothing, I was looking up something about Lincoln today because of the anniversary and stumbled upon the fact that John Tyler has two living grandsons.

John bleeping Tyler...who was president in the 1840s.
Click to expand...

John Tyler...the 10th president of this country. 10TH. TENTH. 34 presidents ago. I cannot emphasize enough how much my mind is blown.

Per Wikipedia, they were born in 1924 and 1928.

Bubbler · Apr 12, 2011

Brian said:

Apropos of nothing, I was looking up something about Lincoln today because of the anniversary and stumbled upon the fact that John Tyler has two living grandsons.

John bleeping Tyler...who was president in the 1840s.
Click to expand...

Damn. I'll admit I thought that was dead-wrong, but you're dead-right.

Tyler's 13th (!?) child was a son born in 1853. He had two kids at the ripe old age of 71 and 75 in the 1920s. The last of them still takes care of the old Tyler plantation.

Armchair_QB · Apr 12, 2011

Bubbler said:

Brian said:

Apropos of nothing, I was looking up something about Lincoln today because of the anniversary and stumbled upon the fact that John Tyler has two living grandsons.

John bleeping Tyler...who was president in the 1840s.
Click to expand...

Damn. I'll admit I thought that was dead-wrong, but you're dead-right.

Tyler's 13th (!?) child was a son born in 1853. He had two kids at the ripe old age of 71 and 75 in the 1920s. The last of them still takes care of the old Tyler plantation.
Click to expand...

Tippecanoe bitches!

Shoeless Joe · Apr 12, 2011

The fact that the grandsons of the man who was President from 1841-45 still being alive and kicking is quite amazing.

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150th Anniversary of the Civil War

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150th Anniversary of the Civil War

Double J Active Member

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Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!! Well-Known Member

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