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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

Page 223 of 241
  1. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    Almost none of the S&P 500’s blockbuster rally in 2019 can be pegged to rising earnings, and that’s a problem, says Goldman

     
    justgladtobehere, Feb 6, 2020
    #2665
    maumann likes this.
  2. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    Screw stock value. Let’s talk engineering.

    Tesla’s ahead there, too. (I don’t think anyone was actually arguing against that.)

    TOKYO -- Toyota Motor and Volkswagen each sell 10 million cars, give or take, every year. Tesla delivered about 367,500 in 2019. But when it comes to electronics technology, Elon Musk's scrappy company is far ahead of the industry giants.

    This is the takeaway from Nikkei Business Publications' teardown of the Model 3, the most affordable car in the U.S. automaker's all-electric lineup, starting at about $33,000.

    What stands out most is Tesla's integrated central control unit, or "full self-driving computer." Also known as Hardware 3, this little piece of tech is the company's biggest weapon in the burgeoning EV market. It could end the auto industry supply chain as we know it.

    One stunned engineer from a major Japanese automaker examined the computer and declared, "We cannot do it."

    The module -- released last spring and found in all new Model 3, Model S and Model X vehicles -- includes two custom, 260-sq.-millimeter AI chips. Tesla developed the chips on its own, along with special software designed to complement the hardware. The computer powers the cars' self-driving capabilities as well as their advanced in-car "infotainment" system.

    This kind of electronic platform, with a powerful computer at its core, holds the key to handling heavy data loads in tomorrow's smarter, more autonomous cars. Industry insiders expect such technology to take hold around 2025 at the earliest.

    That means Tesla beat its rivals by six years.

    The implications for the broader auto industry are huge and -- for some -- frightening.

    Tesla built this digital nerve center through a series of upgrades to the original Autopilot system it introduced in 2014. What was also called Hardware 1 was a driver-assistance system that allowed the car to follow others, mostly on highways, and automatically steer in a lane. Every two or three years, the company pushed the envelope further, culminating in the full self-driving computer.

    There should be nothing stopping Toyota or VW from doing the same much earlier than 2025, considering their immense financial resources and vast talent pools. But technological hurdles are not the reason for the delay, according to the Japanese engineer who said "we cannot do it."

    The real reason for holding off? Automakers worry that computers like Tesla's will render obsolete the parts supply chains they have cultivated over decades, the engineer said.

    Such systems will drastically cut the number of electronic control units, or ECUs, in cars. For suppliers that depend on these components, and their employees, this is a matter of life and death.

    So big automakers apparently feel obliged to continue using complicated webs of dozens of ECUs, while we only found a few in the Model 3. Put another way, the supply chains that have helped today's auto giants grow are now beginning to hamper their ability to innovate.​

    Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW
     
    2muchcoffeeman, Feb 17, 2020
    #2666
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    An anonymous engineer at a Japanese car company said, "We can not do it!" . ... in something that reads like Elon Musk wrote it. ...

    Yeah, that settles it.

    If they can tear it down and give the custom chip a whirl. ... they can do it. A hardware configuration can be replicated very quickly by companies of that size. ... if it truly is innovative and it makes sense from a cost and function perspective to move in that direction (which is more likely why they are taking their time).

    I get the argument that the popularity of Tesla's cars are due to their design or functionality or software. There are people who love the cars. There isn't anything all that functionally different between an iPhone and one of its Android competitors, but the Apple user experience resonates way more with people. And Apple sells a lot of phones because it has a software and GUI advantage that no one has been able to replicate well.

    The thing is, Tesla is not selling cars at that pace. ... at least not yet. ... and really, the batteries are the hard thing to solve in these cars. It's an inherently much more expensive car, and unlike a cell phone, the expense puts it in a bracket most people can't afford, with or without a financing scheme. If Tesla were selling the car at a price to extract the margins that VW or Toyota sell cars at, Tesla's sales would be drastically reduced.

    I find it interesting that this company is always having to shift to being something other than what it used to be to justify the hype. Electric cars. ... No, solar panels. ... no, a gigafactory and batteries. ... no, autonomous cars. ... no, a revolutionary computer chip that no one else can do. ...

    Maybe Tesla can hang around long enough to really revolutionize the world with something. It just used the parabolic move in its stock price to dilute its equity yet more with another $2 billion stock offering (which the stock price didn't even react to, demonstrating how irrational what is going on is). As long as the debt-fueled bubble that has enabled this company is still in force, and it can keep raising money without the market punishing all of the debt and diluted equity, and it can keep servicing its huge debt load. ... there is always that chance.

    But at the moment, it's a company that has blown through an eye-popping amount of borrowed money (and that doesn't mention all of the publicly-funded subsidies that it availed itself of along the way) on top of a lot of diluted equity, and it still needs to keep raising money at regular intervals just to stay afloat and service the immense debt load that has gotten it this far.

    If its hardware (which in every other product in the past was a commodity that did not provide a long-term advantage BECAUSE hardware is so easily replicated) is such an advantage, why aren't they selling more cars? ... and why can't they actually sell cars profitably at margins necessary to make the company self sustaining? The market is always the best arbiter of this sort of thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
    The Big Ragu, Feb 17, 2020
    #2667
  4. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    The best this or that doesn't always translate to market leader. See Betamax vs VHS, OS vs Windows.
     
    goalmouth, Feb 17, 2020
    #2668
    maumann likes this.
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Betamax vs. VHS. Betamax had better resolution, better sound and less luma/chroma crosstalk. It was "better."

    It was also more expensive and offered shorter recording time in its original incarnation.

    The quality difference turned out to be negligable enough for people that it didn't justify the increased cost, and once VHS gained widepread use because of that, the economies of scale made the cost difference even greater.

    In the market, "best" and "better" are less about the spec sheet alone than they are about functionality relative to cost and how much people actually value that functionality.
     
    The Big Ragu, Feb 17, 2020
    #2669
  6. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    TigerVols, Feb 17, 2020
    #2670
  7. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    da man, Mar 6, 2020
    #2671
  8. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    That's a pity. I know a guy who has one of the 2004-06 Holden Monaros that were sold here re-badged as Pontiac GTO's. It has a 6.0 liter LS2 that put out 400 hp. The thing's an absolute beast, a modern muscle car that handles far better than its namesake.
     
    Neutral Corner, Mar 6, 2020
    #2672
  9. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    Batman, Mar 6, 2020
    #2673
    OscarMadison and Neutral Corner like this.
  10. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    2muchcoffeeman, Mar 6, 2020
    #2674
  11. Scout

    Scout Well-Known Member

    The Week That Shook Big Oil -
     
    Scout, May 28, 2021
    #2675
  12. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    2muchcoffeeman, May 28, 2021
    #2676
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