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2017 Pro Football Hall of Fame Ballot

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Della9250, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. 3_Octave_Fart

    3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

    Whatever the case you argued very poorly for it.

    I will not deign to address the ‘alternative fact’ in the first half of your post.
     
  2. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Of course not. You usually run away when you get caught lying, just as you did in this case.

    My point was that you didn't have to worry about me agreeing with you about Ward. I don't. You were incorrect in assuming that I would argue in favor of his enshrinement in the Hall of Fame.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  3. 3_Octave_Fart

    3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

    You’ll sit tight until you’re called on again.
     
  4. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    That isn't a denial. :)
     
  5. cisforkoke

    cisforkoke Well-Known Member

     
  6. QYFW

    QYFW Well-Known Member

  7. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    For the third week in a row, the MMQB on T.O. (and this time it's his drops):

    I don’t think dropped passes should eliminate Terrell Owens from the Pro Football Hall of Fame. As I’ve said, I believe he belongs. But dropped passes should be a part of the discussion. Not a major part, to be sure.

    Hall of Fame voter Ron Borges of the Boston Herald did a widely derided column (way too widely derided for my money) on Owens’ history of drops and not getting in the Hall in two tries. Michael David Smith did a story at Pro Football Talk Saturday deconstructing Owens’ career drops, and he had a lot of them, according to Stats Inc.
    I went back to the last three very good seasons Owens had, 2006-08, in Dallas—his last three 1,000-yard receiving seasons in the NFL. They were also the first three years Pro Football Focus dissected the play of every player in the league, and recorded drops for pass receivers. (Drops are not an official NFL stat, and therefore can be subject to the game-dissector’s opinion of what a drop is. So do not take these numbers as gospel.)
    I compared Owens’ cumulative catches and drops over the three seasons of 2006, 2007 and 2008 to the dominant pass-catchers of those three seasons. For a line of demarcation, I used 250 catches over those three years; eight wideouts or tight ends had 250 or more. The list, per dropped-pass stats kept by Pro Football Focus, with an assist to that cool tool at Pro Football Reference that allows you to make lists for almost any statistic the NFL keeps (in this case, most receptions between 2006 and 2008):

    Player Rec. Drops % of Drops Per Catch
    1. T.J. Houshmandzadeh 294 18 6.1%
    2. Wes Welker 290 19 6.6%
    3. Andre Johnson 278 22 7.9%
    4. Reggie Wayne 272 21 7.7%
    5. Tony Gonzalez (TE) 268 12 4.5%
    6. Larry Fitzgerald 265 12 4.5%
    7. Derrick Mason 251 12 4.8%
    8. Torry Holt 250 15 6.0%

    Now for Owens:
    Player Rec. Drops % of Drops Per Catch
    Terrell Owens 235 38 16.2%

    Over these three seasons, according to Pro Football Focus, Owens dropped balls at more than twice the rate of the eight most productive pass-catchers in the NFL. (Stats Inc. had Owens with 37 drops over these three seasons.) When considering a player for the Hall of Fame, that matters.
    It is also fair to note that Owens, in a three-year run between 1997 and 1999, had only 15 drops according to Stats Inc., while making 187 catches, in Stats Inc. numbers cited by Smith. Between 1997 and 1999, Owens was targeted 305 times. In 2006 through 2008, he was targeted 431 times. So there’s more potential for drops when quarterbacks throw the ball your way 9.2 times per game (2006-’08) than if they throw it to you 6.5 times per games, as in 1997 through ’99. Still, he clearly got worse as his career went on in holding onto the ball.
    Again: This shouldn’t keep Owens out of Canton, in my opinion. I have voted for him, and will vote for him in the future. Drop stats, in perspective, are telling but certainly not an exclamation point. A player’s career is a big canvas, and for a receiver, drops comprise a few swipes of a broad brush. But to say drops shouldn’t go into the hopper for some consideration strikes me as Trumpian.

    Here is the Borges column

    Borges: Supporters of Terrell Owens need to open their fact books before they open their yaps
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    There are a lot of mediocre NFL receivers who 1) don't get a lot of passes thrown to them because they don't get open, and 2) don't adjust to balls and get their hands on passes (including the bad ones).

    Maybe they should be in the Hall of Fame.

    Every year, the players who dropped the most passes were among the best receivers. For the obvious reason that they were targeted the most. You could use that rationale to keep Jerry Rice out of the Hall of Fame, if you are looking for contrivances.
     
  9. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

    King wasn't doing that. He voted for Owens and said he will again.
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I know that. Even Borges didn't write that drops exclude him. His column was more about Owens having to wait. I was saying that the "drops" thing is just a contrivance. You really have to be looking for reasons why Terrell Owens wasn't voted in, when that is what you are coming up with. The receivers who have the most "drops" every year are the best receivers -- they are targeted the most.
     
  11. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

  12. 3_Octave_Fart

    3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

    If George Seifert had the Carolina tenure of even a Dom Capers, would he be a Hall of Famer?
    He drafted Steve Smith and Kris Jenkins, but the 1-15 season sort of befouled his career.
    Nobody with a higher career winning percentage entering ever had that kind of season.
     
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