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2017 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Della9250, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    lol
     
  2. mateen

    mateen Well-Known Member

    Assuming that Gary Carter's public image and reputation pretty much reflected reality when it came to his personality, imagine how hard the 1980s must have been for him, between cocaine apparently scuttling good Expos teams, and then having to put up with all the dipshits on the Gooden/Strawberry/Dykstra Mets.
     
  3. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

  4. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    He's not wrong about Lofton. He does have pretty comparable career numbers to Raines, and was even performing at a pretty high level when he was 40 (.296/.367/.414). I think bouncing around so much at the end really hurt the image of his career. But he was an elite base stealer and a pretty good fielder early in his career. But another guy with a relatively short peak who was a vagabond who played for 11 teams in 17 seasons. That's all the indictment a lot of writers probably need.
     
  5. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Writers also thought he was a raging asshole.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I get uncomfortable with comparisons of players whose prime years are a decade (or more) apart. You don't know if you are comparing apples to apples. I prefer to look at them in the context of when they played. I think Raines was a better player than Lofton, but I also think it is absurd that Raines is in the Hall of Fame, while Lofton was dropped from the ballot in his first year. The difference between them wasn't that great.

    I personally just don't think either of them belonged in the Hall of Fame. If Rickey Henderson or Ichiro are the standards for a certain category of player that I would include Raines and Lofton in, I think Raines and Lofton are just a touch too far below that standard to have been included. I think Raines had the talent to be that kind of player, but he just didn't play at a Hall of Fame level long enough or consistently enough.
     
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    3.90
     
  8. Steak Snabler

    Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

    Another guy who disappeared off the ballot for no good reason was Jim Edmonds. He was a better player than a dozen or so outfielders who are in the Hall of Fame.
     
    JC likes this.
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    What is that category of player? Top of the order guys who played the outfield? I ask because Henderson was a very different player from Suzuki, and a much better one. He hit for more power, was a far superior base-stealer and got on base a lot more. Suzuki was a superior defender and hit for a better average, but still had an OPS far below Henderson's (.820 to .761).

    Just a few fun facts to illustrate the point. Henderson averaged 16 home runs per 162 at-bats. Suzuki's average stands at seven. Suzuki set his career high with 56 steals as a rookie in 2001. Henderson matched or surpassed that total 12 times in his career, including the 66 he stole in 1998, his age 39 season.

    I know the eras are different and I doubt anybody will ever steal 130 bases in a season again, but I thought the differences between the two were worth pointing out.

    I do think Lofton was pushed off the ballot far too quickly and in a lot of ways, he compares favorably to Suzuki, who seems like a sure thing to be a Hall of Famer.
     
  10. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Ichiro was one of my all-time favs to watch, but no way was he comparable to Henderson. But when assessing Ichiro, don't forget fielding. He was way better than Lofton there.
     
  11. amraeder

    amraeder Well-Known Member

    Wait...what?
     
  12. Steak Snabler

    Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

    Voting in guys who might not really deserve it doesn't bother me as much as the wild inconsistency in voting.

    Larry Walker was at least as good as, if not better than, Vladimir Guerrero. Yet somehow Vlad got 3 times as many votes. Was it because he was more fun to watch?

    Billy Wagner was at least as good as, if not better than, Trevor Hoffman. Yet Hoffman got 300 more votes. Do voters really believe Hoffman's advantage of 175 or so saves was built on anything more than circumstance?
     
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
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