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2016 MLB awards thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Again: Why not just look at their innings and ERA? Wins, like RBIs and runs scored, pulls in the performance of other teammates. (I understand that ERA does, too, to a degree.)
     
    JC likes this.
  2. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    We should only use the performance of other teammates in the MVP discussion.
     
  3. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    In Verlander's case, there was one game he got taken out in the fifth inning and three more he went the minimum five -- essentially that's four times he didn't give himself the opportunity to get the win. Porcello's lowest IP is 5.0 one time -- in fact there have been only three games that he didn't go at least six innings.

    When one guy has 16 wins and one guy has 22, and they have the same number of starts and innings, those extra wins gain some relevance.
     
  4. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    The Red Sox have scored 130 more runs than the Tigers, probably due in large part to Porcello's encouraging words.
     
  5. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    You want to eliminate wins entirely because it's a team achievement, yet you want to disregard how Porcello pitches because his team scores runs.

    Those two don't go together.
     
  6. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Seeing as how: A) Porcello and Verlander are virtually identical in ERA, IP and WHIP; and 2) Porcello's team has staked him to an average 6.66 runs/game, while Verlander's has provided him only 4.09, it seems awfully dicey to me to use "Wins" to decide which one gets the nod.
     
  7. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    As Dick correctly acknowledged, performance of the pitcher's teammates also has an impact on ERA. So does the home ballpark, something else that is beyond the pitcher's control.
     
  8. cjericho

    cjericho Well-Known Member

    Has Gary Sanchez done enough for Rookie of the Year? went to a May game with my buddy who is a Mariners fan and told him then Romine should've been cut and Sanchez should be the No. 2 catcher. Guess they wanted to get Sanchez the chance to play every day in Scranton. Didn't expect he'd do this, but liked him a lot two years ago for Trenton.
     
  9. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    You could use losses and factor in the three times Verlander has allowed seven or more runs. That's three games he never gave his team a chance.

    I'm fine with the idea that it's a total coin flip. There may be no particular reason to vote for Porcello, but there's no particular reason to vote for anyone else either.

    The use of strikeouts as a tiebreaker, without any context (such as walks or HR, the other "true outcomes" and components of FIP), seems at least as flawed as wins -- which, for all their faults, do tend to align with a starter's ability to go deep into games consistently.
     
  10. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I don't have a deep enough understanding/strong enough opinion either way. Seems reasonable to look at IP and ERA/ERA+ to get your handful of contenders, then look for ways of breaking the ties. But when there's that big a disparity in run support between the two prime contenders, it doesn't seem to me to be a good idea to let wins get near that tiebreaker.
     
  11. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    (Checks to see what team he plays for.)

    Yep, he does.
     
  12. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

    Verlander leads the AL in strikeouts, though a dozen of them came against a hungover Indians AAA lineup last night.

    Porcello is going to win because his win/loss record is so great. No doubt in my mind that's how it will play out. It's like one of those critics predictions of the Oscars ... WILL WIN: Porcello. SHOULD WIN: Corey Kluber.
     
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