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2016 MLB awards thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Nobody said it was the only criteria, Sunshine. Just that it was a factor.
     
    bigpern23 likes this.
  2. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    As OOP pointed out, team success is not the only factor ... nor is BA, OBP, OPS, HR or any other one statistic. You have to look at the totality of a candidate's season. If two candidates put up similar numbers, and one is on a playoff contender while the other plays for a last-place team, it's reasonable to conclude the guy on the playoff contender is more valuable to his team.

    Is this even debatable?
     
  3. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Not really. It seems like JC just wanted to argue against what has been done for decades with the award. There are probably some voters who won't even look at players who aren't on a contender for MVP, while others look at it as you do, that team success is just part of the equation.
     
  4. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Still stupid. What should Trout do to get his team in the playoffs? How much more "valuable" to his team could he be?

    Would Boston be worse off with Trout over Betts this year, or vice versa? You're punishing guys for terrible teammates and front offices.
     
  5. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Because that's the way it's always been done is a great reason.
     
  6. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    It's going to happen. Your whining won't change that. I think team success does belong in the equation. It shouldn't be everything and a player having a monster year on a terrible team should still be able to win, but there is something to the old argument that a bad team can still stink without its best player.

    Is the system unfair to players on a bad team? Yes. But you defend unfairness in baseball all the time. Why is this different?
     
  7. Vombatus

    Vombatus Well-Known Member

    I believe Ripken won it one year and the team wasn't in contention, but it is very rare for it to turn out like that.
     
  8. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Does Fernsndez win it now? Leads the league in SO/IP and FIP ERA. I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't think it would ruin the integrity of the award. I think it would bring some humanity to it.
     
  9. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    It's not punishing the guy on the shitty team, it's rewarding the guy on the contending team for putting up similar numbers under the pressure of a pennant race. It's important to note that I'm talking about comparable players who are both in the MVP discussion.

    Let's look at your example of Trout vs. Betts, with a week to play:
    Trout: 120R, 28 HR, 97 RBI, .990 OPS, 27 SB
    Betts: 119 R, 31 HR, 109 RBI, .906 OPS, 26 SB.

    They're about as even as you can get statistically, though Trout holds the edge in OPS largely because he walks so much more frequently than Betts. Given that they're so similar statistically, why on Earth would you give the MVP to the guy whose team is 18 games under .500 and out of contention instead of the guy who has helped his team reach 18 games over .500 and a probable division title?
     
    LongTimeListener likes this.
  10. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Don't forget that Betts is probably the best right fielder in the league, defensively.
     
    bigpern23 likes this.
  11. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I really would like to see Trout get to 30-30 again. (And Betts, as well.)

    I know that's arbitrary.
     
  12. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    I thought about mentioning defense, but Trout plays a great centerfield, too, so it's not much of a differentiator. Of course, I suppose that strengthens the argument for adding weight to Betts contributions to a playoff run.
     
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