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Deflategate

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by cranberry, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    In general, I agree with you. But didn't someone else specifically testify to the NFL that there was relevant or "incriminating" information on Brady's phone?

    That's the way I understood it. Akin to someone testifying in court that the murder weapon was in your bedside table. That would give probable cause.
     
  2. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    Gostowski and Favre told the NFL to piss up a rope when asked for their phones. NFL never pursued the issue further. Players are under no obligation to give over their phones.
     
  3. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    I'm not aware of that, but not saying it isn't the case. I just haven't kept up that well.
     
  4. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    This is fine as opinion but clearly not so cut-and-dried as a matter of procedure.
     
  5. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    As a matter of procedure? Where in the CBA is there anything about cooperation, let alone giving over personal items?
     
  6. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    The latest court ruling indicates the league was well within its rights there.
     
  7. Rainman

    Rainman Well-Known Member

    Okay, so what is the other issues on cooperation since I can't convince you of the cell phone bit?

    As a side note, I'm more than a bit worried that so many NFL fans are willing to put more trust in a commissioner who has proven time and time again that his ego is monumental and that he will crush any who oppose him over a dude that people hate because of his winning legacy.

    The people who think Brady looks bad are just hoping he does. Say I agree and cave in, let's say I agree that Brady had anything to do with ANY footballs being deflated (More details on the investigation of Patriots' deflated footballs per the NFL), why a million dollar fine, a first round pick AND four games? It's sheer lunacy. We've heard the comparisons by now, beat the fuck out of your wife? 2 games. Beat the fuck out of your girlfriend? 2 games. It's a joke and a power play by Goodell who wants Brady to french kiss his balls and he simply won't.

    Then again, most of those people couldn't actually tell you what spygate was even about without Googling it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    justgladtobehere likes this.
  8. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    The court ruling speaks more to the fact that courts traditionally don't intervene in collectively bargained disciplinary procedures. The NFLPA hasn't had sufficient leverage to negotiate a fair arbitration procedure, so it's stuck with an unfair ruling from Goodell. But the NFL's case against Brady was pure crap.
     
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Please go back and answer my question before asking any more of your own. You tried pushing a version of events in which Wells told Brady he didn't need the phone, then later asked for it. That does not fit any of the reports I've seen or heard. Please show us where that came from. If you simply got it wrong, please just say so and we will move on.

    And we've heard your argument regarding the actual punishment before and I'm sure you've already seen the answer. You are comparing discipline for off-field incidents to actions that impact the games. Those are going to be punished differently. The NFL is not alone in taking that approach. I don't see MLB giving out lifetime bans for domestic abuse, but that still seems to be the law of the land for betting on baseball.

    Regarding instances of cheating, the NFL is protecting the integrity of the game. We've already seen that disgusting off-field behavior is not going to turn many fans away. But make people think the games are fixed or that teams are getting away with cheating? The sad truth is most fans care more about that than they do about what these guys do off the field. You think these leagues care about this stuff as a moral issue? No way. They care about protecting the bottom line.

    The first round pick and the money were punishments for the team. The suspension was a punishment for a player. The NFL set that type of precedent with Bountygate. Is it too much? Probably. The league is equating this with PED use and I don't agree with that at all, but then you figure in how the Patriots and Brady responded. Kraft said he would abide by whatever punishment the league handed out, then went back on his word and attacked the league. Brady failed to cooperate with the investigation. According to the league, he lied to Wells.

    I don't trust the league, but I don't trust the Patriots, either. That is the difference. You are lapping up whatever story your team is selling. I don't trust anybody involved in this.
     
  10. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    As far as the cheating goes in the deflate-gate game, how did Brady actually benefit, not theoretically?
     
  11. service_gamer

    service_gamer Well-Known Member

    Holy fucking shit stop saying that you don't trust any of them.

    Regarding Brady's cooperation and the cell phone, Wells called Brady cooperative despite not turning the phone over. Brady later provided a full list of numbers and offered to seek the retrieval of messages from his provider, but the NFL said 'Thanks, but no thanks' and opted for a misleading narrative about a destroyed phone.

    This speaks to an agenda by the NFL and to Brady's (totally warranted) lack of faith in the league.

    As for Kraft, the realization that the league carried out a misinformation campaign and a fraudulent investigation doesn't merit changing his mind? I've had the same best friend since elementary school. I trust him with anything and have told him so. Using your logic, if I walk in on him fucking my fiancee and proceed to denigrate him for being untrustworthy then the key takeaway is that I went back on my word.

    So in the final analysis, what exactly are the Brady/Patriots defenders on this topic lapping up? You do get that it's scientifically implausible that Brady had anything to do with this and scientifically IMPOSSIBLE that any of Exponent's or Wells' findings withstand scrutiny, right?

    But pointing this out to you again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again.

    And motherfucking AGAIN makes US the delusional fanboys. Even though your logic sounds like its copy and pasted from a transcript of a local Indianapolis Colts call-in show.

    But go ahead, feign objectivity by perpetuating an argument that essentially distills down to 'the NFL's probably wrong, but those cheating Patriots had it coming.'

    I delight in knowing I'll trigger your compulsive need to have the last word almost as much as I delight in knowing that on this topic I'm right and you're wrong.

    Peace. Love. Free Brady ;)
     
  12. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Yes, you are the delusional fanboys. The courts just backed up the NFL, not your beloved Brady and the Patriots. Declaring yourself right does not make it so.

    But please, tell me about my need to respond as you continue to do the exact same thing, fanboy.

    Also, it is not scientifically implausible that Brady had anything to do with the balls being deflated. Just because your beloved team offered another theory does not mean that theory is true. But hey, the Patriots said it, so you buy in no matter what the reality of the situation. Did Wells ask to the see the phone? Yes. Did Brady destroy it? Yes. Brady did not cooperate with the investigation and that is part of why he was suspended. I'm sorry you can't accept that reality.

    You are the one buying into a false narrative on that one, not me. I'm not wasting any more time repeating the ways Brady failed to cooperate for a fanboy who won't listen. Go back through the thread. It is all there.

    Your analogy with Kraft is ridiculous. He tried to paint himself as a good member of the league ownership team, but he lacked the integrity to stick to his word. End of story.

    I never said the Patriots deserve this just because they are cheats in general. I said the NFL figured in their history of being caught cheating when punishing them. The former is subjective. The latter is objective. Do you need me to explain that to you in more detail?

    I will keep saying I don't trust any of them because it is true. The Patriots have been caught cheating. Brady failed to cooperate with the investigation for a reason. Maybe pure arrogance, thinking he didn't have to subject himself to such things. Maybe because he had something to hide. I'm not sure and you don't know, either.

    Regarding my distrust of the league, I've proven that plenty on this board. I've been saying Goodell is out of line regarding player discipline longer than just about anybody here. I've been slamming the league for years regarding its hypocritical, bullshit stance on player safety. I'm not always on the league's side. I'm not always arguing against it. You'll pardon me if I believe that shows more objectivity that you seem to be capable of demonstrating.
     
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