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Making A Murderer

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by JackReacher, Dec 30, 2015.

  1. SnarkShark

    SnarkShark Well-Known Member

    Just got finished watching this. The biggest takeaway is the blatant injustice of Brendan Dassey's conviction.

    The police took advantage of a borderline mentally disabled teenager who just wanted to get back to watching his fucking WrestleMania. And his shithead lawyer, Len Kuchinsky, should be disbarred. He and his investigator, Michael O'Kelly, were working against the interests of their own client and actively trying to supply evidence to prosecute Avery. What. The. Fuck.

    Could Steven Avery could be guilty of murder? Absolutely. Do I think he could have killed the woman in any manner close to the State's theory? Absolutely not. As @YankeeFan pointed out, where is the blood? These aren't forensic pathologists capable of scrubbing away blood from a garage and everything in it. Avery isn't some criminal mastermind, and Brenden Dassey sure as shit isn't.

    And what about the blood in the 1985 case file? Seal broken and a hypodermic needle hole in the tube of blood?

    These are just some of the moments where I was literally screaming at the television.
     
    Double Down likes this.
  2. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Dassey's original lawyer is a complete dope, who even after the conviction didn't seem to understand what he did wrong.

    In his defense, he was stupid enough to believe the DA's press conference. He thought his client really had admitted to everything, and given the graphic description, as presented by the DA.

    So, he figured the kid's best shot was to testify against his uncle.

    But, he didn't even meet with his client before deciding all of this.

    That kid would have never made a good witness. His confession was basically a serious of affirmative grunts and guesses to the cops questions.

    Even the admission that they shot her -- what about the head?

    We hit her in the head? We stabbed her?

    What about shooting her in the head? Did you do that?

    Oh, yeah. We shot her in the head.

    But, the lawyer did think he was doing what was in his client's best interest. He was just too dumb to be a lawyer.
     
  3. SnarkShark

    SnarkShark Well-Known Member

    Wait, wait, wait. He thought, after his client told him he didn't do it, that hiring an investigator to get his client to confess, so he could give information to the State's investigators, was in his client's best interest? I think you're giving him too much credit.
     
  4. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I don't think he ever veered from his original belief that he had a guilty client, who had confessed, and whom he needed to plead out.

    I'm not saying he's right. He was terrible. I just think he thought he was doing the right thing.
     
  5. SnarkShark

    SnarkShark Well-Known Member

    I can't get Len Kuchinsky's moronic, shit-eating grin out of my head.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Bradley Guire

    Bradley Guire Well-Known Member

    After watching the show and reading online, I would convict Avery if I served on the jury. I believe he killed her. I don't think he killed her in the exact manner in which presented because of the lack of a shitload of blood from a gun shot to the head and other things.

    I don't think any of the cops are clever enough to pull off a frame job. They could barely pull together an investigation without dribbling on the front of their pants while pissing. But I do believe they would plant a few things to make sure there might be enough evidence against Avery. Like Al Pachino's cop character in Insomnia. They guy did it, but Pachino had to make it a slam dunk case.

    Here's a conspiracy: OJ did it.

    And the kid got fucked. He was 16 and totally used up and thrown away by the government. God bless America.

    And that press conference about the kid's "confession" ... outrageous. What competent prosecutor goes on about this shit in public and not worry about tainting the jury pool to the point he risks the judge moving the trial or issuing a gag order?

    Did I miss something? I covered courts for a couple of years but I'm no expert, so if I did please someone point out my errors in understanding. Other than OJ's guilt. He totally did it.
     
  7. TyWebb

    TyWebb Well-Known Member

    The lack of blood from Halbach anywhere on the Avery property is the one trip up I have with Steven's guilt. Unless I'm forgetting something, there wasn't any DNA evidence of hers found anywhere in his room, garage or elsewhere. That seems strange, unless he truly was an expert in cleaning up his mess.

    Still think the guy is guilty though.
     
  8. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    The only thing putting her in the garage is the bullet found with her DNA.

    His house and garage were complete messes, so it's hard to imagine he could have killed her there without some blood splatter being found.

    Did he plan it out? Did he have some sort of tarped, torture chamber ready for her, that he burned up?

    Maybe, but the State never claimed this, or presented evidence of it.

    The State's original narrative, based on the Dassey "admission" had her neck cut in the trailer, but they later moved her death to the garage.
     
  9. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I have one question for the legal minds out there...

    Normally, the trial of two killers would only be held separately if their defenses conflict, right? Or, in other words, shouldn't a trial of two defendants only be held separately to ensure each of their rights to a fair trial are ensured, and not for the convenience of the prosecution?

    It seems to me that if they had been tried together, you couldn't have convicted them, since the State basically presented two separate narratives to convict them.

    Dassey's defense was willing to concede that Steven had killed her, but that he wasn't involved, since it didn't hurt them to do so.

    But, if they were tried together, and alibied each other, how the hell would the prosecution have convicted them? If they entered Dassey's admission into evidence, they would have had to try and prove his story in court.

    They never tried to do that in Steven's trial. And, it was the only thing that convicted Brendan.
     
  10. dieditor

    dieditor Member

    I'm leaning toward Avery being guilty, although I still have a problem with motive. It doesn't seem as though the State really developed that, or the series didn't dig too much into it. That's what I can't figure out -- the guy was waiting on a $36 million payday and had just spent 18 years in the clink. Why go back?
     
  11. TyWebb

    TyWebb Well-Known Member

    Throughout the whole thing, I couldn't shake the feeling that, because he was once wrongly convicted and released, he thought he could literally and figuratively get away with murder. That is why the prosecution, in the beginning of his first trial, made it clear that his 18 years in prison had nothing to do with Teresa Halbach. Whatever leniency or sympathy he thought he might get because of his first conviction wasn't there, apparently. But I admit, this is just me trying to connect dots in my head.

    As far as motive goes, I'm not sure there is one beyond he had a crush on her that went too far. But why go back? I don't think he thought he could or would go back.
     
  12. TyWebb

    TyWebb Well-Known Member

    Also, fuck this guy.
     
    SnarkShark likes this.
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