NFL coaching trees

This is an offshoot of the McDaniels thread.

I find it very interesting that it seems that every Belichick assistant seems to fail miserably when they take over as head coach. Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I can't think of any of his assistants, not counting guys who also coached under Parcells, having much success at all.

Meanwhile guys who have coached under Parcells, Holmgren, and Andy Reid have won Super Bowls. Never mind all of the Walsh disciples that are still scattered around the league.

My inclination is that this just adds to Belichick's star power. That these coordinators in New England would be nothing without the genius of their head coach.

 

Andy Reid has won a Super Bowl? The folks in Philly would be happy if he did.

 

Is it one-degree-of-separation? Reid? he begat Childress. Holmgren begat Zorn, Ray Rhodes & Mike Sherman.

Parcells has a nice list, Payton, Coughlin and Belichick

 

In my opinion, Josh McDaniels is the only coach who legitimately failed.

Eric Mangini went 10-6, 4-12 and 9-7 in his three seasons with the Jets. In his second season, the Jets played the majority of the season with Dustin Keller at QB after losing Pennington to injury. That wasn't a good situation and most coaches in the NFL can't overcome the loss of their starting quarterback. Now with the Browns, Mangini seems to have things headed in the right direction. The Browns should compete for a playoff spot within a year or seven.

Romeo Crennel took over the same awful Browns franchise that had gone 4-12 and 5-11 in the two years prior to his arrival. He had Trent Dilfer as quarterback in his first season and then Charlie Frye in his second season. Then he went 10-6 in year three, but the Browns didn't make the playoffs. He went 4-12 in his final season and everything seemed to go wrong, including, if memory serves, an injury to his starting quarterback. Maybe I'm giving Crennel the benefit of the doubt because he's so gosh darn likable, and because he's done a great job in Kansas City. But I don't think anybody in the NFL questions his ability as a football coach.

Charlie Weis went 35-27 in five years at Notre Dame and took the Irish to a pair of BCS Bowls. Expectations in South Bend are absurd, and no coach has had much success there since Lou Holtz left. Weis didn't do a great job, but he wasn't the disaster people make him out to be. (And yes, I realize that he led them to a 3-9 record the year after Brady Quinn left.)

 

Where do the trees' roots start? Several Belichick assistants who didn't do too well as head coaches are Weis and Crennel, who were also Parcells' assistants. Mangini is a pure Belichick guy, and while he hasn't set the world aflame, he hasn't really failed, either.

 

Crennel and Weis were borderline awful as head coaches.

Sometimes bosses do not mentor underlings at all. Belichick could be that type of boss.

A better question might be where would all these guys be without Tom Brady? Remember, Belichick was not exactly hot shit his first stop in Cleveland.

 

Your last paragraph is revisionist history of the highest order. Charlie Weis was a miserable failure as a college head football coach. An absolute miserable failure. He knows it, too, and that's why he chose to go back to the NFL as an offensive coordinator, where he belongs. And there's no shame in that, but don't act for a minute like he didn't fail at Notre Dame. Trotting out the "high expectations" trope is garbage. 3-9; 6-6; 6-6 in his last three regular seasons. 0-5 vs. USC (albeit with a pair of close calls in South Bend). People have every right to expect more out of Notre Dame than that.

Wonder if Belichick's shielding of his assistants from the media leaves them unprepared for what a head coach faces on a daily basis in some way?

 

Two of the coaches who have failed (or are failing) were property of the Cleveland Browns. That right there ruins the sample. The other was at a school so full of itself, with expectations so ridiculous, that anything short of 10 wins and a berth in the national title game is considered failure.

Josh McDaniels was the only coach of the bunch who I thought had a great chance of succeeding. He had a franchise QB (or a guy who was thought to be a franchise QB), a great owner, a solid franchise with tremendous fan support, a solid staff (led by Mike Nolan), and a nice collection of talent on both sides of the ball. And then he fucked it all up. He alienated Cutler. He screwed up with Brandon Marshall. He traded Peyton Hillis. He drafted Tim Tebow. He cheated. Good god, what a mess.

 

I'll give you that. Weis brought it all on himself, and he was a cocky, arrogant asshole. And as you said, his last three seasons were a disgrace. I definitely pulled a Cowherd in trying to defend him.

 

How many true coaching trees are there right now?

I wonder how many head coaches in the NFL have never coached for or played under:

1. Walsh/Holmgren
2. Parcells/Belichick
3. Schottenheimer
4. Dungy

I know in the case of Mike Tomlin, and Leslie Frazier they both coached under Childress and Dungy, so technically they're part of two coaching trees since Childress, who coaches under Reid, belongs to the Walsh/Holmgren tree.

 

Belichick did begat Saban. Just FWIW.

 

Many coaches over the past 40 years (including the Walsh/Holmgren clan) can be traced back to Sid Gillman.