Author Topic: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....  (Read 4491 times)

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YGBFKM

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #125 on: March 10, 2012, 09:16:01 AM »
Just thinking about the Rams, they should be fine. The big question mark is Bradford, but Jeff Fisher won with Vince Young and Kerry Collins ( league's best record in 2008), so if the team can keep the kid upright, the Rams should be competitive pretty soon.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 04:51:58 PM by YGBFKM »

Offline wicked

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #126 on: March 10, 2012, 10:04:28 AM »
On a side note, if the Rams are not a playoff team in five year, they need to give up competitive football.

Five years? Try two, if not this year.

Typical Snyder trade. I'm wondering how long it will take for the Shanahans to fall out of love with RG3. And Moddy, there was buzz when Haynesworth signed, too, but it was a horrible deal then and anyone who followed the league could have told you that.


Offline PressRowsNotSafe

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #127 on: March 10, 2012, 11:10:28 AM »
The first words out of my mouth like a lot of people here were, "Wow, they gave up too much. What a deal for the Rams." You have to figure that at the very least, those first two picks by the Redskins will both be good ones.

But as others have brought up, if you think you have a chance to get a top-tier NFL QB, this league is tailored around them, so don't you go get one even if you have to pay 1.20 on the dollar? It's pretty obvious that RGIII will make or break this deal on its own, but I think what it will penultimately boil down to is that Washington has to hit on a high percentage of it's free agency moves now. You lack the draft picks to gather impact players, so whoever you grab off the market, they better not go Haynesworth on you.

Online LongTimeListener

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #128 on: March 10, 2012, 11:11:40 AM »
The first words out of my mouth like a lot of people here were, "Wow, they gave up too much. What a deal for the Rams." You have to figure that at the very least, those first two picks by the Redskins will both be good ones.

But as others have brought up, if you think you have a chance to get a top-tier NFL QB, this league is tailored around them, so don't you go get one even if you have to pay 1.20 on the dollar? It's pretty obvious that RGIII will make or break this deal on its own, but I think what it will penultimately boil down to is that Washington has to hit on a high percentage of it's free agency moves now. You lack the draft picks to gather impact players, so whoever you grab off the market, they better not go Haynesworth on you.

If free-agency moves are the second-to-last factor, what is the last?

Offline DanOregon

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #129 on: March 10, 2012, 11:28:54 AM »
Forgot about Ferragamo - always considered him a Cal guy, and Aikman a UCLA guy. Still surprised that no Big 12 qb has won a Super Bowl. Sure the wishbone was a big part of it, but since they've started throwing the ball, their qbs haven't exactly shined (Young, McCoy, Gabbert, Daniels, Stewart..) also odd that no USC qb has played in a Super Bowl.
I really don't see it as much of a risk for Shanahan. If it works - he gets extended, if it doesn't he's fired and doesn't have to deal with the aftermath.
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Offline Michael_ Gee

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #130 on: March 10, 2012, 04:45:18 PM »
The left-liberal economics blogger Matt Yglesias on Slate had a post about how this was a horrible deal for the Redskins citing the research of those guys on draft picks done PRIOR to the new contract which made all their data irrelevant. But that's not even the worst part. It ignored the economic reality of the decision makers. NFL personnel decision makers don't live in a long-term universe. Maybe it's better over the long haul to always horde draft picks, but in the short haul, you're fired. It's like expecting hedge fund managers to buy index funds because that's the best long-range plan.
     This is a hugely risky deal. But if Griffin can play, he's a bargain.

Offline Ryan_Sonner

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #131 on: March 10, 2012, 05:14:44 PM »
Sonner, Griffin is not a RUNNING quarterback. That's just the tag football-ignorant fans place on black QBs. His stats are what you would expect from a Big 12 passer. That hasn't meant much on the NFL level, but maybe he's the guy to change that. The kid's obviously got a ton of character on multiple levels, but as someone who wants to see him succeed, there are about 30 better places he could have landed. 

Yeah. I was being sarcastic when I called him a running qb. Used caps to signify the idiocy of those who refer to him as a running qb.

He's a smooth, smooth passer. I've been saying for months that he will be at least as good, if not better, than Luck for months. Just a hunch. Hope I'm right. Unless the Colts get jumpy and take RG3.

Again, it's a move the Skins had to do. No better option among college QBs. They need to get younger at QB, not older.
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Offline nmmetsfan

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #132 on: March 10, 2012, 05:55:45 PM »
Even if Griffin can play, this isn't a bargain. We could look back at this trade and see shades of Herschel Walker before it's said and done
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Offline Michael_ Gee

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #133 on: March 10, 2012, 06:04:22 PM »
You cannot say this deal was good/bad until we see how Griffin turns out. Put it this way. If a team traded three first round picks for the rights to Tom Brady in 2000, would that be a good deal or a bad deal?
When the Pats let Curtis Martin go, there were many people, not just in New England, who said the draft picks they got made it an easy decision. In the end, the draft picks got blown on very unproductive players (Chris Canty, Andy Katzenmoyer) and Curtis has an August date in Canton.
      Washington took a position. Until the wheel stops turning, that shouldn't be criticized.

Offline derwood

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #134 on: March 10, 2012, 06:51:28 PM »
Even if Griffin can play, this isn't a bargain. We could look back at this trade and see shades of Herschel Walker before it's said and done

Don't think that's a good comp due to age difference. 

Offline Versatile

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #135 on: March 10, 2012, 06:54:12 PM »
A. Yes, paid too much.  That's a lot.
B. That said, had to do it.  Need a QB who at least gives you hope. I know this kid is unproven as a pro, but he gives hope.
C. Someone used the word "buzz" earlier.  This town is buzzing.  People are paying attention to the Redskins again and many had stopped.  Counts for at least something.
D. Don't be surprised if they end up with some extra draft picks anyway.
E. Sign a strong free-agent WR, a good OL and maybe a safety.   Free agency, done right, allows you to close the gap more quickly.
F. Keep Davis and Williams away from the bong.
G. They did NOT give up four picks. Gave up three.  Changed places for one.  They pick second now instead of sixth. They lose their second-round this year and first the next two seasons (wow - no first until 2015 after this year).   That's three. 

Man, I don't know what's wrong with you guys. They gave up four picks for one pick. That was the trade. There was nothing officially designating the No. 6 pick as a "swapped" pick. They swapped four picks for one pick.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 07:06:00 PM by Versatile »
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Offline derwood

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #136 on: March 10, 2012, 07:04:46 PM »
Keep in mind how little Griffin will cost for the next several years compared to a free agent QB. That's a big reason why these high picks carry more value than they did when you had to draft the guy and then give him $40 million guaranteed.

Based on how this was shaking out, it was becoming clear that it was going to take three No. 1s to get this done. The Redskins threw in the extra No. 2 to put some distance between themselves and the Browns. If he becomes a franchise QB it will be worth it.

In most years it would be insane, but I think Luck and RG3 are both going to be great, great players. And yeah, I think Griffin is that much better than the A&M kid.



Keep in mind that Rams got four slotted contracts in exchange for one.   That's three starters Skins will have to fill via free agency.  Huge cap penalty there.   

Offline Versatile

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #137 on: March 10, 2012, 07:07:49 PM »
Keep in mind how little Griffin will cost for the next several years compared to a free agent QB. That's a big reason why these high picks carry more value than they did when you had to draft the guy and then give him $40 million guaranteed.

Based on how this was shaking out, it was becoming clear that it was going to take three No. 1s to get this done. The Redskins threw in the extra No. 2 to put some distance between themselves and the Browns. If he becomes a franchise QB it will be worth it.

In most years it would be insane, but I think Luck and RG3 are both going to be great, great players. And yeah, I think Griffin is that much better than the A&M kid.

Keep in mind that Rams got four slotted contracts in exchange for one.   That's three starters Skins will have to fill via free agency.  Huge cap penalty there.   

Right. Mizzougrad, I think you defeated your own point. Think about how valuable those three (likely high) picks will be for the Rams because of the new collective bargaining agreement.
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Offline dooley_womack1

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #138 on: March 10, 2012, 07:08:00 PM »
Keep in mind how little Griffin will cost for the next several years compared to a free agent QB. That's a big reason why these high picks carry more value than they did when you had to draft the guy and then give him $40 million guaranteed.

Based on how this was shaking out, it was becoming clear that it was going to take three No. 1s to get this done. The Redskins threw in the extra No. 2 to put some distance between themselves and the Browns. If he becomes a franchise QB it will be worth it.

In most years it would be insane, but I think Luck and RG3 are both going to be great, great players. And yeah, I think Griffin is that much better than the A&M kid.



Man, if RGIII can be half as good as Cutler, the Skins are the big winners here.
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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #139 on: March 10, 2012, 07:13:16 PM »
A. Yes, paid too much.  That's a lot.
B. That said, had to do it.  Need a QB who at least gives you hope. I know this kid is unproven as a pro, but he gives hope.
C. Someone used the word "buzz" earlier.  This town is buzzing.  People are paying attention to the Redskins again and many had stopped.  Counts for at least something.
D. Don't be surprised if they end up with some extra draft picks anyway.
E. Sign a strong free-agent WR, a good OL and maybe a safety.   Free agency, done right, allows you to close the gap more quickly.
F. Keep Davis and Williams away from the bong.
G. They did NOT give up four picks. Gave up three.  Changed places for one.  They pick second now instead of sixth. They lose their second-round this year and first the next two seasons (wow - no first until 2015 after this year).   That's three. 

Man, I don't know what's wrong with you guys. They gave up four picks for one pick. That was the trade. There was nothing officially designating the No. 6 pick as a "swapped" pick. They swapped four picks for one pick.

Because the headline read "Redskins give up three 1st-round draft picks" which makes it look as though the Skins finished the transaction with three fewer first round picks than they had at the start of the day, which is not true. The net loss of first round picks was two.
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Offline FootballScribe

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #140 on: March 10, 2012, 07:20:37 PM »
One other factor in ultimately declaring a "winner" in this trade is Sam Bradford. The Rams devoutly stuck by him in this and declared an unrelenting belief that he'll become the franchise QB they thought he'd be when he was drafted. If that doesn't pan out and Griffin becomes a superstar, it won't matter much what the Rams get with the picks acquired.

Offline Versatile

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #141 on: March 10, 2012, 07:42:02 PM »
A. Yes, paid too much.  That's a lot.
B. That said, had to do it.  Need a QB who at least gives you hope. I know this kid is unproven as a pro, but he gives hope.
C. Someone used the word "buzz" earlier.  This town is buzzing.  People are paying attention to the Redskins again and many had stopped.  Counts for at least something.
D. Don't be surprised if they end up with some extra draft picks anyway.
E. Sign a strong free-agent WR, a good OL and maybe a safety.   Free agency, done right, allows you to close the gap more quickly.
F. Keep Davis and Williams away from the bong.
G. They did NOT give up four picks. Gave up three.  Changed places for one.  They pick second now instead of sixth. They lose their second-round this year and first the next two seasons (wow - no first until 2015 after this year).   That's three. 

Man, I don't know what's wrong with you guys. They gave up four picks for one pick. That was the trade. There was nothing officially designating the No. 6 pick as a "swapped" pick. They swapped four picks for one pick.

Because the headline read "Redskins give up three 1st-round draft picks" which makes it look as though the Skins finished the transaction with three fewer first round picks than they had at the start of the day, which is not true. The net loss of first round picks was two.

It just said "Redskins give up three first-round draft picks" without "for No. 2 pick"? If so, that is misleading.
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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #142 on: March 10, 2012, 07:45:58 PM »
A. Yes, paid too much.  That's a lot.
B. That said, had to do it.  Need a QB who at least gives you hope. I know this kid is unproven as a pro, but he gives hope.
C. Someone used the word "buzz" earlier.  This town is buzzing.  People are paying attention to the Redskins again and many had stopped.  Counts for at least something.
D. Don't be surprised if they end up with some extra draft picks anyway.
E. Sign a strong free-agent WR, a good OL and maybe a safety.   Free agency, done right, allows you to close the gap more quickly.
F. Keep Davis and Williams away from the bong.
G. They did NOT give up four picks. Gave up three.  Changed places for one.  They pick second now instead of sixth. They lose their second-round this year and first the next two seasons (wow - no first until 2015 after this year).   That's three. 

Man, I don't know what's wrong with you guys. They gave up four picks for one pick. That was the trade. There was nothing officially designating the No. 6 pick as a "swapped" pick. They swapped four picks for one pick.

Because the headline read "Redskins give up three 1st-round draft picks" which makes it look as though the Skins finished the transaction with three fewer first round picks than they had at the start of the day, which is not true. The net loss of first round picks was two.

It just said "Redskins give up three first-round draft picks" without "for No. 2 pick"? If so, that is misleading.

That was my understanding based on what hondo posted. I never saw it myself. The site now has "Redskins get No. 2 pick from Rams" as the story hed and "Redskins land No. 2 pick from Rams" as the front page tease.
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Offline Guy_Incognito

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #143 on: March 10, 2012, 08:09:22 PM »
I'm just happy Isaiah Thomas landed on his feet after the Knicks fired him.
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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #144 on: March 10, 2012, 08:19:21 PM »
I'm just happy Isaiah Thomas landed on his feet after the Knicks fired him.

What does the Sacramento Kings guard have to do with this thread?
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Offline nmmetsfan

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #145 on: March 10, 2012, 09:57:24 PM »
You cannot say this deal was good/bad until we see how Griffin turns out. Put it this way. If a team traded three first round picks for the rights to Tom Brady in 2000, would that be a good deal or a bad deal?
When the Pats let Curtis Martin go, there were many people, not just in New England, who said the draft picks they got made it an easy decision. In the end, the draft picks got blown on very unproductive players (Chris Canty, Andy Katzenmoyer) and Curtis has an August date in Canton.
      Washington took a position. Until the wheel stops turning, that shouldn't be criticized.

Yes it depends on how Griffin turns out, but for this much he better be on the Tom Brady/Peyton Manning level or it's probably too much. If he turns out like Tony Romo, pretty good but no championship level player, is it fair to say the Skins overpaid?  (Also it was Robert Edwards and Chris Floyd who were picked from the Martin deal. Katzenmoyer was part of the Parcells deal, not that it matters)
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Offline nmmetsfan

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #146 on: March 10, 2012, 10:00:35 PM »
Even if Griffin can play, this isn't a bargain. We could look back at this trade and see shades of Herschel Walker before it's said and done

Don't think that's a good comp due to age difference. 

Truth is there aren't many comparisons regardless of age because this many picks don't change hands very often
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Offline Ben_Hecht

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #147 on: March 10, 2012, 10:55:47 PM »
You cannot say this deal was good/bad until we see how Griffin turns out. Put it this way. If a team traded three first round picks for the rights to Tom Brady in 2000, would that be a good deal or a bad deal?
When the Pats let Curtis Martin go, there were many people, not just in New England, who said the draft picks they got made it an easy decision. In the end, the draft picks got blown on very unproductive players (Chris Canty, Andy Katzenmoyer) and Curtis has an August date in Canton.
      Washington took a position. Until the wheel stops turning, that shouldn't be criticized.

Yes it depends on how Griffin turns out, but for this much he better be on the Tom Brady/Peyton Manning level or it's probably too much. If he turns out like Tony Romo, pretty good but no championship level player, is it fair to say the Skins overpaid?  (Also it was Robert Edwards and Chris Floyd who were picked from the Martin deal. Katzenmoyer was part of the Parcells deal, not that it matters)


Yep.   As usual, People-Hate-Me-On-Sight Snyder lost this one on the first tee with Stewie Griffin-like "Ohhh, ohhhh, I want it!" overpayment-eagerness, unless Griffin=Unitas.
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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #148 on: March 11, 2012, 05:09:10 AM »
A. Yes, paid too much.  That's a lot.
B. That said, had to do it.  Need a QB who at least gives you hope. I know this kid is unproven as a pro, but he gives hope.
C. Someone used the word "buzz" earlier.  This town is buzzing.  People are paying attention to the Redskins again and many had stopped.  Counts for at least something.
D. Don't be surprised if they end up with some extra draft picks anyway.
E. Sign a strong free-agent WR, a good OL and maybe a safety.   Free agency, done right, allows you to close the gap more quickly.
F. Keep Davis and Williams away from the bong.
G. They did NOT give up four picks. Gave up three.  Changed places for one.  They pick second now instead of sixth. They lose their second-round this year and first the next two seasons (wow - no first until 2015 after this year).   That's three. 

Man, I don't know what's wrong with you guys. They gave up four picks for one pick. That was the trade. There was nothing officially designating the No. 6 pick as a "swapped" pick. They swapped four picks for one pick.

You are correct.  Swapped four. Got one back. So gave up three.
What-the-hell ever, though,  It the grand scheme of things, does it make a difference?

Have the Colts said they're definitely going Luck? 

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Offline Steak Snabler

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Re: Redskins get No. 2 pick.....
« Reply #149 on: March 11, 2012, 05:38:56 AM »
Not that I've seen, but I'm sure the Redskins would be more than happy to be "stuck with" Luck.
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