Topic: Antwaan Randle El college highlights

[troop loop]

We had a lengthy thread earlier this year about the best college football players we had watched play in person. Antwaan Randle El was mentioned often yet there was almost no footage on YouTube. This was posted earlier today. Wow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghrPmBmek2A&feature=youtu.be

[Moderator1]

Why do I smell a rat here?  I'm not clicking on that link from the office.  If this is bullshit, someone let me know

[Big Circus]

It's real, Moddy. (And it's Antwaan Randle El in college, so it's spectacular, too.)

[Bubbler]

I was very blessed to cover Indiana football during the Randle El era. Without question, the most electrifying player I've ever seen in college.

A lot of those highlights are from his debut against Western Michigan in 1998. That's No. 1 on my all-time list of "where the fuck did THIS guy come from?" performances.

But a bunch of Levron Williams highlights too? Someone was trying too hard to be definitive on the halcyon days of late 90s/early 2000s IU football.

And IU fans showed their stupidity as attendance dropped through the course of Randle El's career. Not sure why. They sucked before he got there in the dying throes of the Bill Mallory era and would suck worse when he left.

[Stoney]

Without question, the most electrifying player I've ever seen in college.

Agreed.   And without question the player who should've won the 01 Heisman.    Eric Crouch vs. Randle El?   Please.

[Bubbler]

Those highlights don't include my personal favorite. IU played Iowa in Bloomington in 2000. Randle El went downfield, maybe 15 yards or so, and successfully completed an option pitch from inside the hashmarks to the left sideline. He was damn near midfield.

Gobsmacked.

[imjustagirl]

We had a lengthy thread earlier this year about the best college football players we had watched play in person. Antwaan Randle El was mentioned often yet there was almost no footage on YouTube. This was posted earlier today. Wow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghrPmBmek2A&feature=youtu.be

"This was posted earlier today?" Really?

The account that posted the Randle El highlights? "Troop Loop."

[crimsonace]

And IU fans showed their stupidity as attendance dropped through the course of Randle El's career. Not sure why. They sucked before he got there in the dying throes of the Bill Mallory era and would suck worse when he left.

That was in the middle of the whole whizzing match over Bob Knight, too. Lots of people withheld their $$ and support. It was also the time period when the Colts began to be relevant, and a lot of fans that were going to Bloomington suddenly were buying Colts season tickets and watching Peyton.

It wasn't just Knight, either. You could go to the message boards and spend hours arguing over Bill Mallory's firing five years after the fact (I remember some people complaining that IU's problem was that it was scoring too fast -- after watching some of the awful offenses they've had in years since, I wonder if they'd rescind those comments). I've never seen a fan base that bickered with itself over petty stuff more virulently than IU fans in the late 1990s/early 2000s. Meanwhile, I was sitting back and enjoying what I was seeing, because the years since -- with a couple of exceptions -- have been ugh-lee.

[sportbook]

And IU fans showed their stupidity as attendance dropped through the course of Randle El's career. Not sure why. They sucked before he got there in the dying throes of the Bill Mallory era and would suck worse when he left.

That was in the middle of the whole whizzing match over Bob Knight, too. Lots of people withheld their $$ and support. It was also the time period when the Colts began to be relevant, and a lot of fans that were going to Bloomington suddenly were buying Colts season tickets and watching Peyton.

It wasn't just Knight, either. You could go to the message boards and spend hours arguing over Bill Mallory's firing five years after the fact (I remember some people complaining that IU's problem was that it was scoring too fast -- after watching some of the awful offenses they've had in years since, I wonder if they'd rescind those comments). I've never seen a fan base that bickered with itself over petty stuff more virulently than IU fans in the late 1990s/early 2000s. Meanwhile, I was sitting back and enjoying what I was seeing, because the years since -- with a couple of exceptions -- have been ugh-lee.

That's very true. The Big Ten was also loaded at that time. You had Dayne at Wisconsin, Brees at Purdue, Brady at Michigan, Arrington and Brown at Penn State, and even Illinois and Minnesota were decent. Still not sure anyone can win at IU.

[Bubbler]

And IU fans showed their stupidity as attendance dropped through the course of Randle El's career. Not sure why. They sucked before he got there in the dying throes of the Bill Mallory era and would suck worse when he left.

That was in the middle of the whole whizzing match over Bob Knight, too. Lots of people withheld their $$ and support. It was also the time period when the Colts began to be relevant, and a lot of fans that were going to Bloomington suddenly were buying Colts season tickets and watching Peyton.

It wasn't just Knight, either. You could go to the message boards and spend hours arguing over Bill Mallory's firing five years after the fact (I remember some people complaining that IU's problem was that it was scoring too fast -- after watching some of the awful offenses they've had in years since, I wonder if they'd rescind those comments). I've never seen a fan base that bickered with itself over petty stuff more virulently than IU fans in the late 1990s/early 2000s. Meanwhile, I was sitting back and enjoying what I was seeing, because the years since -- with a couple of exceptions -- have been ugh-lee.

That's very true. The Big Ten was also loaded at that time. You had Dayne at Wisconsin, Brees at Purdue, Brady at Michigan, Arrington and Brown at Penn State, and even Illinois and Minnesota were decent. Still not sure anyone can win at IU.

Not in 2000. Yes Purdue had Drew Brees, but that's one of the worst Big Ten champions in the modern era by almost any measure -- postseason (lack of) success, final AP/coaches' polls, final computer rankings.

Not sure how crimsonace feels about it, but I always felt the whole "Bill Mallory-was-fired-too-soon!" crowd trolled in revisionist history.

Yes, Mallory is the most important football coach IU has had in the last 40 years. He built IU into a legit program in the late 80s and early 90s.

But IU was awful in his last two seasons. Awful in terms of W-L records (2-9 and 3-8 and 1-15 in the Big Ten), but also awful in terms of being so boring as to be unwatchable. Drawing crowds in Bloomington for football isn't easy to begin with, but Mallory's teams weren't exactly gate fodder.

What made Mallory look good in hindsight was that Cam Cameron was in way over his head and Gerry DiNardo was God awful. No coach has had success since Mallory, so his star rises with it.

That's cool, but his last two years certainly warranted a change.

[Boom_70]

No disrespect to Randal El but Denard Robinson highlights pre Hoke era are even more impressive.

[Bruce Leroy]

Those highlights don't include my personal favorite. IU played Iowa in Bloomington in 2000. Randle El went downfield, maybe 15 yards or so, and successfully completed an option pitch from inside the hashmarks to the left sideline. He was damn near midfield.

Gobsmacked.

That's the play I always turn to in a Randle El debate. It was probably the moment I decided he was the best football player I'd ever seen too.

[dixiehack]

It sounds almost comical, but I still regret not seeing IU-Minnesota in 99 when I had a Saturday layover in the Twin Cities. Needless to say, he's the only reason I feel that way.

[crimsonace]

Not sure how crimsonace feels about it, but I always felt the whole "Bill Mallory-was-fired-too-soon!" crowd trolled in revisionist history.

I thought highly of Bill Mallory. Enjoyed covering his teams during my days at the IDS, enjoyed watching them over his career. He took a program that was pretty bad -- 0-11 his first year -- and made it respectable. Had 7 winning seasons in a 9-year stretch in the middle of his career, and is by far the most successful coach in IU history.

But the last couple of years, they were just not really competitive. It was time for a good man to step aside.

Cam Cameron was, on paper, a good hire. IU grad, enthusiastic, young, offensive genius. But he had never even been a coordinator, and his lack of game management skills really showed. The big blow for him came the night of that Iowa game everyone references -- his right-hand man, Pete Schmidt, passed away. Schmidt appeared to do a lot of the game management, and after he took his leave of absence, the games often looked like a fire drill, especially late. Things began to turn around in Randle El's senior year after a rough start, and that team was one phantom holding call in Happy Valley away from being in a bowl.

Unfortunately, the "Bill Mallory was fired too soon" crowd was out of the woodwork before the ink was dry on Cam Cameron's contract. Half the fanbase wouldn't give Cameron a chance because he wasn't Mallory (and, seriously, blamed him for "ruining" prized QB prospect Earl Haniford, who was somewhere between bad and awful). That same half was complaining that "a true dropback passer" Tommy Jones was the real stud quarterback and Randle El should be playing running back or receiver. It's hard to really get excited about a team when all the fans are fighting with each other over things far beyond their control.

[westcoastvol]

Five times as many people will click on that link and watch it than the number of people who actually saw him play on tv.

[Bob Cook]

My IDS time was the halcyon days of Bill Mallory, so I'm one of the few student reporters who covered a winning team. Mallory was a great guy, but, yes, he just couldn't sustain what he had. Basically, he was able to get a few, rare, high-profile in-state recruits (Dave Schnell, Anthony Thompson) to stay home, and they worked out great. Unfortunately, he lost others, and those in-state, high-profile recruits he did get (Earl Haniford, anyone?) flopped hard. IU got lucky getting Randle El in that I believe it was among the few schools that would allow him to keep playing quarterback.

I think Terry Hoeppner would have been successful in at least getting Indiana to consistent seven-win seasons. He was a great fit: Indiana-born and raised, successful pedigree as a head coach (with Roethlisberger at Miami of Ohio), and someone who truly believed IU was a plum job. Alas, Hoeppner died after only two years on the job, and the prospects for Indiana football seemed to die with him.

[crimsonace]

I think Terry Hoeppner would have been successful in at least getting Indiana to consistent seven-win seasons. He was a great fit: Indiana-born and raised, successful pedigree as a head coach (with Roethlisberger at Miami of Ohio), and someone who truly believed IU was a plum job. Alas, Hoeppner died after only two years on the job, and the prospects for Indiana football seemed to die with him.

I really thought Hoeppner would've gotten Indiana to where Minnesota or Northwestern have been -- consistent 6-7 win seasons, maybe have 4-5 wins in a down year every 3-4 years. He was the perfect fit for the job -- charismatic, a pretty solid football coach -- but his health issues and subsequent passing really set the IU program back years. I'm not sure they've hit a homerun with Kevin Wilson, but I do believe they'll at least be competitive once he changes the culture.

[FormerlyCrimsonCream]

I'm not sure the Hoosier fans showed stupidity in attendance.

The team was bad. Real bad.

I grew up going to games when Mallory was coach. I attended the school during the Randle-El years.

Yes, the team was horrible the last two years under Mallory. He was rightfully fired. But I also remember Cameron's first game, and how the team came out in black uniforms with the slick new logo amidst all the fanfare of a new era dawning.

And then promptly got blasted by Kentucky.

The team never had a winning record with Randle-El there. Hard to bring fans in when you don't win. Add to that, the school kept jacking up ticket prices since nobody was showing up.

My parents -- who had season tickets going back to the 60s and saw some truly bad football over the years -- finally gave them up after a lot of the people they spent years sitting next to began disappearing.   

Even with Randle-El's play, you knew the outcome of most games. Why pay extra? 

Much better to sit in the tailgate area across the street next to a keg. 

[sportbook]

I'm not sure the Hoosier fans showed stupidity in attendance.

The team was bad. Real bad.

I grew up going to games when Mallory was coach. I attended the school during the Randle-El years.

Yes, the team was horrible the last two years under Mallory. He was rightfully fired. But I also remember Cameron's first game, and how the team came out in black uniforms with the slick new logo amidst all the fanfare of a new era dawning.

And then promptly got blasted by Kentucky.

The team never had a winning record with Randle-El there. Hard to bring fans in when you don't win. Add to that, the school kept jacking up ticket prices since nobody was showing up.

My parents -- who had season tickets going back to the 60s and saw some truly bad football over the years -- finally gave them up after a lot of the people they spent years sitting next to began disappearing.   

Even with Randle-El's play, you knew the outcome of most games. Why pay extra? 

Much better to sit in the tailgate area across the street next to a keg. 

Randle El's senior year they finished 5-6 overall and 4-4 in the Big Ten. They won at Wisconsin and Michigan State and beat Purdue. The 1999 team finished 4-7 and lost to Michigan, 34-31, and Purdue, 31-24. Those teams were actually pretty competitive and if they would have played the non-conference schedule IU plays now they would have gone to multiple bowls. Instead, they were playing North Carolina, NC State, Kentucky, Utah, and other BCS conference schools.

[FormerlyCrimsonCream]

Just trying to point out that it's hard to get excited about 4-7, 3-8 and 5-6 football teams.

I pretty much consider those bad records, thus bad teams. There were plenty of drubbings during that time to go along with the close games. And my memory is fuzzy, but I don't think Utah back then was the Utah of today. A utes team that went 3-8 or 4-something the year before came to Bloomington and beat them in what was supposed to be a somewhat sure non-conference win.

Anyway, the point was that winning brings fans. They couldn't win. I remember ticket prices kept on climbing. No hard data, but a lot of people quit paying. Watching losing football just wasn't that exciting.

I remember that Utah game -- if you were a student without season tix, a single game ticket was something like $25 or something. Maybe that's the norm, but I thought back then it was pretty outrageous to watch sub .500 football teams.

My folks' tickets -- pretty high up -- were reaching into the $70 and $80 range or more per game by the time they cancelled.

$70 for 4-7 football???

No. Thanks.

[dixiehack]

Since it is Bill Mallory appreciation night, why did those teams have a pentagram shoulder patch?

[93Devil]

Five times as many people will click on that link and watch it than the number of people who actually saw him play on tv.

Play college football...

[crimsonace]

Yes, the team was horrible the last two years under Mallory. He was rightfully fired. But I also remember Cameron's first game, and how the team came out in black uniforms with the slick new logo amidst all the fanfare of a new era dawning.

And then promptly got blasted by Kentucky.

The team never had a winning record with Randle-El there. Hard to bring fans in when you don't win. Add to that, the school kept jacking up ticket prices since nobody was showing up.

You're slightly off -- they wore the blacks in the 2nd home game of the year (and 3rd game of the season). Cameron was trying to introduce black to the color scheme, and rightly said after the game was over "we looked like Louisville, not Indiana." Those uniforms, apparently, are still buried somewhere in storage in Bloomington. That 1997 team had no talent.

IU was pretty competitive during Cameron's tenure, but never could get over the hump. Blew a two-touchdown lead in the last few minutes to Phil Rivers and NC State in ARE's junior year (in part thanks to a defensive holding flag thrown about 3 years after the play by an ACC official that kept NCSU's last possession alive), had Randle El throw a perfect 65-yard Hail Mary to beat Tom Brady/Anthony Thomas and Michigan, only to have Jerry Dorsey drop the ball.

In Randle El's senior year, they did lose to Utah -- but that was the foundation of the undefeated Utah team a couple of years later (and did so because they didn't line up correctly on a 2-point conversion that would've tied the game) -- that team beat USC in a bowl game. Lost to Penn State in Happy Valley when the winning TD was taken away by a questionable holding call. Turn those 2 games around, they're 7-4. They throttled Wisconsin 63-32 in Camp Randall. They were one of the top 20 teams in the country by season's end, but couldn't ovecome their slow start, and Cameron was unceremoniously hair-trigger fired by an AD who then conducted the worst coaching search in the history of college football and brought on three years of Gerry DiNardo.

IU's ever-competent ADs at the time backed them into some awful schedules -- they were playing at least 2 BCS-level schools out of their three non-conference games each year. Had they played the schedules they play now -- 4 OOC games -- they'd have made at least 3 bowls during Randle El's tenure. They were not terrible. They had a terrible defense and the game management was questionable at best at times, but they were ridiculously fun to watch.

[FormerlyCrimsonCream]

I guess we could debate the merits of the team back then forever. To me, what you mentioned is a fair number of events going the opposite way to get them above .500. And again, I may be off on some games trying to remember this stuff from 10-plus years ago, but I also recall some just dreadful games, as well.

Anyway, my main thing was just responding to the whole Hoosier fans showing their "stupidity" by not attending.

I never really heard any anger about the Mallory and Knight firings from season ticket holders regarding football. Instead, the team couldn't win. Starting with Mallory's last few years, it became a tradition of losing.

Ticket prices went up. Fans got tired of paying those prices to watch them lose. I don't think that shows stupidity, but smart business sense, actually. I remember that school begging people to come out to the games, but there just wasn't any incentive.

This may be me just totally misremembering, but I think the school even talked about bringing John Cougar Mellenkamp to the stadium for a show if everyone filled the stadium for one game.

And I think they did this during a year when Ohio State -- the one garaunteed sell out -- wasn't coming to town.

But all that might just be complete fantasy from me. Can't remember everything perfectly.

If they win, fans show up. Most people want to see winning, not great plays in a loss.

[Bob Cook]

Yeah, Indiana went through, I believe, five ADs in six years or something ridiculous like that during the aughts. That didn't help football, that's for sure, and all the attention is paid to basketball anyway. The biggest problem for a school like Indiana in recruiting is that, as a football player, you'll never be bigger than even the 12th man on the men's basketball team, or bigger than the basketball manager. I suspect Kentucky has the same problem (along with trying to recruit alongside the rest of the SEC).