A perfectly hateful column from Bob Kravitz on the eve of the Super Bowl

[Mizzougrad96]

This storyline has been available for years and years.

Jim Zorn and Rick Neuheisel were scabs too, there wasn't an inquisition when their careers took off.

Actually, Neuheisel was hammered about it early on in his coaching career. I think when he was at CU or UW, Dan Fouts either refused to do a game where Neuheisel was coaching, or did the game without mentioning Neuheisel by name.

[Jersey_Guy]

What this column does best IMO is show the disconnect between Kravitz and anyone under age 50. It's a billboard for why newspapers need balance in opinion writers, both experienced voices and younger voices. He sounds like my old cranky grandpa, a relic of another era - and that's fine, because that voice should be represented. But you should also have someone who lives in the now, and the Star doesn't have that guy. Not even close.

[Lee Jackson Beauregard]

Interesting. There's a lot of untold stories out there about the scabs, they'd make a good book. (Fuck that terrible movie.)

Clip of Payton as Bears quarterback:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJYe4m-OvNQ

The arm is "Tebow-esque."

[Ace]

What this column does best IMO is show the disconnect between Kravitz and anyone under age 50. It's a billboard for why newspapers need balance in opinion writers, both experienced voices and younger voices. He sounds like my old cranky grandpa, a relic of another era - and that's fine, because that voice should be represented. But you should also have someone who lives in the now, and the Star doesn't have that guy. Not even close.

OK, but another question is whether newspapers have any readers that live in the now.

[WaylonJennings]

What this column does best IMO is show the disconnect between Kravitz and anyone under age 50. It's a billboard for why newspapers need balance in opinion writers, both experienced voices and younger voices. He sounds like my old cranky grandpa, a relic of another era - and that's fine, because that voice should be represented. But you should also have someone who lives in the now, and the Star doesn't have that guy. Not even close.

I think this is a fair point, but I still don't understand why Bob Kravitz is under some obligation to tether his principles on employer-labor relations to Dan Hampton's, which seems to be the implication of some of these posts.

[brettwatson]

The column works for me. Different sort of topic compared to what most wrote about all week. But he talked to some folks who offered up their view of the situation, then opined what he thought about it. Seems like that is what a columnist is supposed to do.

Because others didn't share his opinion, he was supposed to bend his to reflect theirs?

I like it when a columnist goes out on a limb, either from his choice of topics or his conclusions. Shows the kind of balls that readers want from those freed to be subjective.

[spaceman]

I don't know that anybody ever said this site was an outpost of the left-wing media.

[Sneed]

The column is ludicrous. It's fine pointing out that Payton was a scab. That in itself is an interesting angle. What athlete with a dream wouldn't take an opportunity like that?

But why take the approach of making that a horrible thing? It's a low blow, a shameful attempt at smearing someone who's accomplished something great.

[Joe Williams]

To me, there's a big difference in types of so-called scabs.

If it's a union member who crosses the picket line, separating himself or herself from the group that they belong to, that's bad. Like, you know, Mitch Albom.

If it's an outsider who sees an employment opportunity that, for reasons that have nothing to do with that outsider, is vacant and waiting, with a paycheck and possible entry into a profession to be had, that's just the American way.

Someone has a job to fill. Someone needs a job. Someone who had the job has stepped away from it for reasons that are important to them but maybe not to everyone.

All those on this board who think the veterans in their newsrooms should get out of the way and free up jobs for those who allegedly are hungrier, more energetic and more talented, how is that any different?

[WaylonJennings]

All those on this board who think the veterans in their newsrooms should get out of the way and free up jobs for those who allegedly are hungrier, more energetic and more talented, how is that any different?

The existence of a collective bargaining agreement makes it different.

[Ace]

The column is ludicrous. It's fine pointing out that Payton was a scab. That in itself is an interesting angle. What athlete with a dream wouldn't take an opportunity like that?

But why take the approach of making that a horrible thing? It's a low blow, a shameful attempt at smearing someone who's accomplished something great.

Because to the NFL Players and other union folks, being a scab was shameful.

[WaylonJennings]

The column is ludicrous. It's fine pointing out that Payton was a scab. That in itself is an interesting angle. What athlete with a dream wouldn't take an opportunity like that?

But why take the approach of making that a horrible thing? It's a low blow, a shameful attempt at smearing someone who's accomplished something great.

It's not "shameful." It's not a "smear" or a "low blow." It is perfectly reasonable to criticize someone for crossing a picket line in this country. That's separate from the later "accomplishment." The accomplishment doesn't wipe out the act of siding with management in a labor-management dispute.

And there are plenty of athletes who wouldn't take that dream opportunity. I'm sure a lot of them passed on it in 1987, particularly any of them whose father ever walked the picket line himself.

Don't get me wrong. There are perfectly reasonable arguments in favor of management in these disputes. But Kravitz's take that there is something unseemly about crossing the picket line is also perfectly reasonable, backed by history, and completely unmitigated by the fact that Sean Payton was starry eyed in 1987 or that he won a Super Bowl in 2010. Ethics that dependent on circumstance are no ethics at all.

[Joe Williams]

All those on this board who think the veterans in their newsrooms should get out of the way and free up jobs for those who allegedly are hungrier, more energetic and more talented, how is that any different?

The existence of a collective bargaining agreement makes it different.

But the larger point is, was Sean Payton part of that bargaining unit when he accepted a job to play football?

[Ace]

All those on this board who think the veterans in their newsrooms should get out of the way and free up jobs for those who allegedly are hungrier, more energetic and more talented, how is that any different?

The existence of a collective bargaining agreement makes it different.

But the larger point is, was Sean Payton part of that bargaining unit when he accepted a job to play football?

No, but he was hurting, instead of supporting, the folks who were.

[WaylonJennings]

All those on this board who think the veterans in their newsrooms should get out of the way and free up jobs for those who allegedly are hungrier, more energetic and more talented, how is that any different?

The existence of a collective bargaining agreement makes it different.

But the larger point is, was Sean Payton part of that bargaining unit when he accepted a job to play football?

I would never, ever, ever cross someone else's picket line. Totally bush league and disrespectful. A lot of blood has been shed in this country by employees fighting for their rights against management. I wouldn't cross someone's picket line for $1 million. Sean Payton did. Obviously that reflects his values at the time. They are defensible values, I suppose, but he's certainly open to whatever criticism he gets for doing that by people who don't share them. The fact that he's coaching in the Super Bowl doesn't insulate him from that criticism from Bob Kravitz or anybody else. In fact, it may be even more relevant: Look what Sean Payton had to do to get to where he will be tomorrow.

[Ben_Hecht]

Has anyone mentioned The Dwarf, yet?

[Joe Williams]

All those on this board who think the veterans in their newsrooms should get out of the way and free up jobs for those who allegedly are hungrier, more energetic and more talented, how is that any different?

The existence of a collective bargaining agreement makes it different.

But the larger point is, was Sean Payton part of that bargaining unit when he accepted a job to play football?

No, but he was hurting, instead of supporting, the folks who were.

Not in Sean Payton's case, of course, but sometimes outsiders who do this are supporting, rather than hurting, the folks they love and care for (family).

No tolerance for a union member who does it. Outsider? Different situation IMO.

[WaylonJennings]

All those on this board who think the veterans in their newsrooms should get out of the way and free up jobs for those who allegedly are hungrier, more energetic and more talented, how is that any different?

The existence of a collective bargaining agreement makes it different.

But the larger point is, was Sean Payton part of that bargaining unit when he accepted a job to play football?

No, but he was hurting, instead of supporting, the folks who were.

Not in Sean Payton's case, of course, but sometimes outsiders who do this are supporting, rather than hurting, the folks they love and care for (family).

No tolerance for a union member who does it. Outsider? Different situation IMO.

An outsider is taking advantage of someone else's misfortune, perhaps even their mistreatment by management. In aggregate, that vests all the power squarely with management, and we all- the vast majority of us in the work force who are not management - lose out.

But I digress. We're all off the point now.

Fact is, Bob Kravitz, agree with him or not, was perfectly reasonable in writing this particular criticism of Sean Payton's rise. If it's something he believes strongly in, why is he supposed to hold back just so Payton can enjoy his time in the spotlight?

[Boom_70]

Thought that Shane Falco was the best replacement player

[Piotr Rasputin]

Kravitz was the third writer to have this story, as seen in the links posted on the first page of the thread.

He used identical quotes to the second writer's.

So what I want to know is: how did this story get out there? Was someone pushing it? Was that someone pushing it for a reason?

Oh, look! NFL labor negotiations are on the horizon. How very interesting.

[/removestinfoilhat]

[Bob Cook]

Payton-as-scab is a good and appropriate topic for a column, but I don't think any of three examples posted here handled it well. Kravitz is right in his indignation -- that being a scab is nothing to be proud of (any Detroit folks want to weigh in on this?) -- but he obviously had the idea before he got any support for it.

To me, I think that the angle could have tied in better with the current labor situation by noting Payton as a living, breathing symbol of what the owners did in '87. Maybe I missed this, but did anybody ask Payton about this? How does Payton feel about the labor problems? If the players are out again, would Payton be more than happy to accept replacement players? (This story -- a good look back on '87 -- notes the coaches who dragged their feet assembling teams because of their player loyalty: http://www.seattlepi.com/football/89817_replace04.shtml) What side does Drew Brees think Payton will be on, given his history?

Payton is evidence that the owners can and will pull all kinds of shit (as city council and state legislatures can tell you). Maybe the best way to approach this is as a straight opinion piece, rather than trying to get others to support your view. Or you can take others to task for their short memories.

[novelist_wannabe]

We can -- and have before -- debate the finer points of unions. That said, this is a perfectly legitimate column because of the looming labor negotiations and apparent likelihood of a strike. I'd disagree with the mean-spirited charachterization, but that's because I'm anti-union (hey, I think people should be hired, fired, promoted, disciplined, etc., based on merit, not on how long they've beeing paying union dues. But that's just me). I can see both sides of this. I wouldn't have written it exactly the same way, but I still think these are legitimate questions.

Besides, Payton's a coach now. He's management. Which leaves him on the same side he was as a replacement player.

[cranberry]

I would never, ever, ever cross someone else's picket line. Totally bush league and disrespectful. A lot of blood has been shed in this country by employees fighting for their rights against management. I wouldn't cross someone's picket line for $1 million. Sean Payton did. Obviously that reflects his values at the time. They are defensible values, I suppose, but he's certainly open to whatever criticism he gets for doing that by people who don't share them. The fact that he's coaching in the Super Bowl doesn't insulate him from that criticism from Bob Kravitz or anybody else. In fact, it may be even more relevant: Look what Sean Payton had to do to get to where he will be tomorrow.

Nothing wrong with the column at all, although I kind of wish Bob Cook (who raised a good point about better connecting it to the 2011 lockout) was editing it. That Payton's rise to fame included undercutting his fellow football players is a story worth telling. People make mistakes, even good people, and cleaning up people's images isn't part of journalism.

[Bob Cook]

I would never, ever, ever cross someone else's picket line. Totally bush league and disrespectful. A lot of blood has been shed in this country by employees fighting for their rights against management. I wouldn't cross someone's picket line for $1 million. Sean Payton did. Obviously that reflects his values at the time. They are defensible values, I suppose, but he's certainly open to whatever criticism he gets for doing that by people who don't share them. The fact that he's coaching in the Super Bowl doesn't insulate him from that criticism from Bob Kravitz or anybody else. In fact, it may be even more relevant: Look what Sean Payton had to do to get to where he will be tomorrow.

Nothing wrong with the column at all, although I kind of wish Bob Cook (who raised a good point about better connecting it to the 2011 lockout) was editing it. That Payton's rise to fame included undercutting his fellow football players is a story worth telling. People make mistakes, even good people, and cleaning up people's images isn't part of journalism.

Wow, thanks, Cran. *blush*

The beauty of the Payton-as-scab column is you still have plenty of time to write it. After all, this labor dispute isn't going to be settled anytime soon, and Payton's status as scab and Super Bowl coach isn't going to change.

[Lee Jackson Beauregard]

I wouldn't cross someone's picket line for $1 million. Sean Payton did.

Replacement players made a little over three grand a game. Not exactly lucrative.