"Getting out of the business" resource thread

[SlickWillie71]

Bought a book entitled "Middle Class Lifeboat" from Paul and Sarah Edwards yesterday. There are some great ideas in there, including list of over 50 financially secure careers (one of which included small newspaper publishing) that help folks like us be able to hop off the ship if so desired.

[BB Bobcat]

Do you usually get something in writing about your departure from a job that says it was a "layoff" or "buyout" or "voluntary"? How does that come into play with regard to collecting unemployment benefits?

I am in a situation in which I'm being told my job description is going to change in such a way that it essentially forces me to resign. (I'd have to commute 170 miles a day to do this new job.)

[sportschick]

See, that's what I'm thinking. They can't keep you from saying anything unless you sign a non-disclosure agreement, right? Or could they verbally tell you to not say anything and withhold your severance if you do?

If you're getting severance, you can be forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement to receive the severance. I believe that the agreement can last for the length of the severance. Least this is how I remember it being explained to me at one point.

One of our lawyers might know better though.

[Mark2010]

Good grief. I guess they are paying much better now than they did when I was in the business in the 1990s.

I'm pretty glad no newspaper I applied to (countless amount) would give me even a low paying desk job. I am glad because I landed a job at a college as a sports information intern and it seems that my future is much brighter in this field.

[standman]

Anyone have/had any experience as a car salesman? I got an offer from one my area's leading car dealers to begin as a salesman. They're paying for my training, and offer benefits (which my paper does not).

Thoughts?

Don't be afraid of sales, especially those among you with reporting skills. If you've been a reporter for any length of time, you have the communication skills necessary for sales.

Consider:

If you've done man on the street or random interviews, it's the equivalent of old calling experience. You've probably interviewed everybody from the typical high school kid and his family to a celebrity athlete, which means you can communicate with all kinds of people.

You have deadline experience, which means you know how to handle pressure. You've been able to get people to talk when they didn't want to, which means you have the power to persuade. You may have had to wait hours just to ask one person a question when you know you're going to either get a no comment or a b.s. answer. You know how to stay cool and be persistent.

Journalists aren't shy people, which is why you've been able to have success. Salespeople aren't shy people, which means in many cases, you stand to make a lot more money for the skills you already have.

I've been in sales for the better part of two years and I use my old skills every day. The sales folks put a different name on it, a more technical name on it. But this is stuff you have been doing for a long time.

And once you start selling and grow in your profession, you'll have something tangible to move up to the next level or sell another product. It's not about who you know and it's not necessarily about how much experience you have. It's about results and $. And if you can show a sales manager that you know how to make $, you'll always be able to get a job.

[ZummoSports]

anybody know where any of the pro teams or the leagues themselves post whatever media relations openings they may have?

[leo1]

See, that's what I'm thinking. They can't keep you from saying anything unless you sign a non-disclosure agreement, right? Or could they verbally tell you to not say anything and withhold your severance if you do?

If you're getting severance, you can be forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement to receive the severance. I believe that the agreement can last for the length of the severance. Least this is how I remember it being explained to me at one point.

One of our lawyers might know better though.

I'm a lawyer. I don't think this is accurate although I have never dealt specifically with a non-disclosure case. This seems like a simple contract matter:  A non-disclosure is a contractual agreement that can last as long as the parties agree to it lasting.

So in other words they can write a contract that says in exchange for three months severance, you have a four-year non-disclosure.  Or enter swap any other numbers for the three and four.  You'll almost certainly agree to this contract because you want, and need, that three months of severance. 

Also, you're not "forced" to sign the non-disclosure.  That might be how it seems because you won't get that severance if you don't sign it, but the choice is yours.  They're making an offer of severance.  The terms are that you have to agree to the non-disclosure.  If you don't want the non-disclosure, you don't get the severance. 

[EStreetJoe]

For those of us who are pushing 40 with a family and don't have the time and money to invest in law school to become a lawyer, a paralegal seems to be a good alternative.

[Cadet]

Can you brief us on what a paralegal is and how to become one?

And does the job description include being looked down upon by lawyers? Is this akin to a doctor/nurse relationship? Or is it totally different?

[Smartwriter]

Can you brief us on what a paralegal is and how to become one?

And does the job description include being looked down upon by lawyers? Is this akin to a doctor/nurse relationship? Or is it totally different?

I've got a link to the Bureau of Labor Statistics about paralegals earlier in the thread. I have actually looked at going that route and have considered taking a class for that. From the little bit I know from sitting in an information session for the aforementioned class and with talking with an attorney friend, they do things that include the client intake interview and proof documents. They can work in law firms, governments, corporations. From what I understand, it's more of a doctor-nurse type of relationship. The paralegals don't give law advice. That's left to the attorney. Anyone in the legal field, please correct if I'm wrong on anything. There's also a growing trend toward certifying paralegals. The class I'm considering would be in preparation for a state bar exam.

[Cadet]

Hmmm... interviewing and proofing documents? Them there's journalism skills!

I just wonder if there's an inferiority complex involved between "real lawyers" and "just paralegals" ... I wouldn't want some freshly minted frat boy lawyer (like my brother) thinking he could boss me around because he has a J.D., even though I was heavily credentialed in a previous line of work. 

[WaylonJennings]

For those of us who are pushing 40 with a family and don't have the time and money to invest in law school to become a lawyer, a paralegal seems to be a good alternative.

Just to clarify, I don't think any of us "have the ... money" to go to law school. I know this probably isn't what you meant, but it's not like we're a bunch of trust fund babies going back on mom and dad's dime. It is an investment, one we'll be paying for for years afterward. Others choose to go to a lower ranked school for a significant scholarship. Either way, there are major sacrifices and hardships. I know of one person who just went back who has three young children.

I'm likely oversensitive, but between the "time and money" comment and the comment about "freshly minted frat boy lawyers," I sensed a little bit of class-type resentment, and I don't think that's fair. And, again, maybe I'm being a bit oversensitive. But I'm making a lot of sacrifices to take this route, and I hate to think that others in a profession I mostly love and am sad to leave would even think that I am some kind of child of privilege.

[TrooperBari]

I doubt people were disparaging you or the legal business, Waylon.

All manner of people -- well off and otherwise -- attend law school, and I'm sure the good folks here are aware of that.

[EStreetJoe]

Waylon I'm just looking at it from my perspective. My wife's job doesn't offer health insurance. Law school is time consuming to the point where someone won't be able to work a full-time job to support his/her family, let alone get health insurance. Going the COBRA route for health insurance can run $1500 a month for a family plan. So with one salary coming in and a heavy debt for school if one goes the loan route, I see it as a difficult if not impossible thing to do in the short-term. Plus how many years do you need to work to pay off those loans?
   For me, pushing 40 with the first child on the way, I wouldn't have the money (short-term to make mortgage payments, health insurance payments, etc.) or time (short-term to spend time with the baby or long-term to pay off the loans and actually start making money before I hit retirement).
    That's the crux of my time and money comment. To be a paralegal I can go to a graduate-level ABA-approved program for 3 hours a day (figure 6 with commuting time and staying on-campus to do legal research for class assignments), have my weekends and nights free, and have my certification in 5 months, and be able to pay the tuition without taking out a 5-figure loan.

       
       

[BB Bobcat]

Do paralegals make good money? What do you need to do to to train for that, if not law school? One class? Three classes? One year?

[EStreetJoe]

Do paralegals make good money? What do you need to do to to train for that, if not law school? One class? Three classes? One year?

Depends on where you go. Some community colleges offer the certification with an Associate's Degree. Some colleges have a graduate level program for it. You should make sure its ABA-approved.

The community college near me has an ABA-approved 65-hour course program that will get you the certificate plus an internship (210 work hours) is required. With some classes being offered just in the spring, some just in the fall, and the prerequisite requirements, it could take a year to complete. An ABA-approved graduate-level program that I'm also eyeing requires 300 course hours that can be completed in 5 months with the day program (or 10-months nights and Saturdays) but it doesn't offer an internship.

[WaylonJennings]

Waylon I'm just looking at it from my perspective. My wife's job doesn't offer health insurance. Law school is time consuming to the point where someone won't be able to work a full-time job to support his/her family, let alone get health insurance. Going the COBRA route for health insurance can run $1500 a month for a family plan. So with one salary coming in and a heavy debt for school if one goes the loan route, I see it as a difficult if not impossible thing to do in the short-term. Plus how many years do you need to work to pay off those loans?
   For me, pushing 40 with the first child on the way, I wouldn't have the money (short-term to make mortgage payments, health insurance payments, etc.) or time (short-term to spend time with the baby or long-term to pay off the loans and actually start making money before I hit retirement).
    That's the crux of my time and money comment. To be a paralegal I can go to a graduate-level ABA-approved program for 3 hours a day (figure 6 with commuting time and staying on-campus to do legal research for class assignments), have my weekends and nights free, and have my certification in 5 months, and be able to pay the tuition without taking out a 5-figure loan.

It's all cool. Like I said, I was likely being oversensitive. Everyone has their own reality to face. I just kind of cringe at this idea that only a lucky few can manage to make that sort of leap. I'll be making sacrifices. Major sacrifices. As will my family.

I was reacting less to you and Cadet than I was to some of the passive-aggressive stuff I've heard from others, in and out of the business. You know, the whole, "Must be nice ..." schtick.

[EStreetJoe]

Can you brief us on what a paralegal is and how to become one?

And does the job description include being looked down upon by lawyers? Is this akin to a doctor/nurse relationship? Or is it totally different?

As posted by SmartWriter on the first page of the thread:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos114.htm

[The No. 7]

Hi, I've lurked here for a while and decided to post. I've been a copy editor since graduating from college a few years ago, and I have limited design/Web skills. I want to live in another part of the country more than I want to stay in journalism, but I'm not sure how to market myself. What other jobs can copy editors do?

[buckweaver]

Hi, I've lurked here for a while and decided to post. I've been a copy editor since graduating from college a few years ago, and I have limited design/Web skills. I want to live in another part of the country more than I want to stay in journalism, but I'm not sure how to market myself. What other jobs can copy editors do?

As stated previously, the best way to market yourself is not as a "copy editor" or even someone with "copy editor experience/skills." The skills you use -- the talent and experience you have -- can be applied to any profession you choose. You just have to know how to highlight those skills so that it doesn't look like you're one-dimensional.

Whatever you want to do is up to you. But you can market your communications skills, your ability to work on deadline and in groups, your initiative, any computer skills you have, etc., for anything you want to apply for. That's how you market yourself.

[leo1]

Do paralegals make good money? What do you need to do to to train for that, if not law school? One class? Three classes? One year?

In my year or so as a lawyer and couple of years as a part-time law clerk i have seen paralegals that run the gamut of experience - and therefore run the gamut of salary.  here in florida they just launched a certified paralegal program, but it's optional.  i've seen paralegals who make about 50K a year who are college graduates.  i've seen paralegals who make 25K a year who have nothing but a high school diploma. 

at the large new york law firms i'm sure a paralegal can make close to 100K.  most will probably make from 30-60K.  what paralegals actually do varies greatly from firm to firm.  i've worked at firms where paralegals know more than the lawyers.  then i've seen firms where paralegals do grunt work - but they leave at 5:30, while the lawyers have to stay for another couple of hours. 

[toomanycookies]

My father actually made the jump from journalism to being an investigator with the public defender's office almost 30 years ago. He had a journalism degree, was in that economic downturn, and was lucky enough to get a job with the public defender's office. But he's not a paralegal.

I don't know if that type of certification would be needed now, but I don't see why, other than the paper certificate. It's the same skills. You go out interview witnesses, come back and write reports. You also serve supboenas, which can be a harrowing experience.

Actually, he was visiting in the area recently and had a client in another jursidiction that once lived here. He needed info, so I filled him in on a related case and we went to the local cop shop to talk to the authorities further. He asked the cop the same questions I do every day, just got better answers because he isn't the media.

It's a good gig and very interesting. I imagine if there was such a job open and you showed them your skill set, you'd have a good chance at getting the job without paralegal school, which seem like scams in a lot of cases, truthfully.

[likhary]

what's a good thing to put under "objective" that could be used for several different careers that could use the skills I currently have?

[BB Bobcat]

what's a good thing to put under "objective" that could be used for several different careers that could use the skills I currently have?

I don't think you need "objective" on there at all. If you are sending a resume to a company, your obvious objective is to get the job. That's one of those space-fillers that college kids put on their resumes because they don't have enough other stuff yet to fill up the page IMO.

[Cadet]

General question: Do recruiters still exist? If I were interested in working in a specific industry or with a specific organization (like state government or Target) are there still recruiters I could speak with to get an idea of what jobs are available and what skills they're looking for? Or has everything gone the way of monster.com?