Joe Sheehan vs. BBWAA

[TheSportsPredictor]

Apparently Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus (one of the best baseball writers out there, IMHO) won't be invited into the Baseball Writers Association of America anytime soon. Don't know what the BBWAA has been doing to "aggressively self-define" itself, as Sheehan says. But it has prompted this nice little rant:

My hope is that the very public discussion of the membership standards for inclusion makes it clear what I’ve argued for some time: that the nominal BBWAA is actually a BBRAA, a guild assembled to protect a subset of the people in the baseball-writing pool, to advance the interests of those whose primary actions involve attendance, querying, and transcription, and for a dying form of media, print dailies.

People who have done those jobs, or sort of did them, or did them for a little while and never got crossed off the list, or worked with the people who did those jobs…it’s all a little confusing…have membership, various privileges related to access and voting, an imprimatur that marks them as a professional and defines those not carrying the card as less than. Professional baseball writers who do not perform the job in a particular fashion—no matter the quality of their output, size of their audience, or length of their career—will not be granted these privileges. Some of the highest-ranking, longest-tenured members of the BBWAA have made it clear, in their own words, that reporting, rather than writing, is the bright-line test for membership.

I say these things not to be insulting, but to make clear that the organization, despite its name, is not an organization of American baseball writers. It’s a lobbying group, and an exclusionist one, dedicated to the needs of newspaper reporters. And it is proudly so, as became clear over the last few weeks. That certain privileges accrue to this limited subset of the baseball-writing universe is an anachronism that should be addressed by Major League Baseball, by the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and by teams themselves. Until such time occurs, I will comfortably regard the group in toto as a trade guild while maintaining the respect and admiration I have for the work of many talented members individually. I encourage others to do the same.

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7017

[BYH]

Hard to argue with any of that.

[Pulitzer Wannabe]

It's a private organization and - short of race, gender or age discrimination - can make the standards of inclusion whatever it wants to. If Sheehan wants to form a competing club for bloggers and start his own Hall of Fame, he should have a ball. I get sick of people bitching about the BBWAA.

[PHINJ]

Frankly, it's time for MLB and the Hall of Fame to take the votes for all honors away from writers. They're hardly the most qualified group of baseball observers anymore and it's time to stop pretending they are.

[TheSportsPredictor]

It's a private organization and - short of race, gender or age discrimination - can make the standards of inclusion whatever it wants to. If Sheehan wants to form a competing club for bloggers and start his own Hall of Fame, he should have a ball. I get sick of people bitching about the BBWAA.

Joe Sheehan is not a "blogger". He is one of the founders of Baseball Prospectus, which has grown from a bunch of guys posting on a usenet group to book publishing to a website which has found a way to support itself through a subscription service to a radio program. He writes for that site as well as others. He has a bachelor's degree in journalism from Southern Cal. And he is not me.

[BYH]

It's a private organization and - short of race, gender or age discrimination - can make the standards of inclusion whatever it wants to. If Sheehan wants to form a competing club for bloggers and start his own Hall of Fame, he should have a ball. I get sick of people bitching about the BBWAA.

Joe Sheehan is not a "blogger". He is one of the founders of Baseball Prospectus, which has grown from a bunch of guys posting on a usenet group to book publishing to a website which has found a way to support itself through a subscription service to a radio program. He writes for that site as well as others. He has a bachelor's degree in journalism from Southern Cal. And he is not me.

We knew that.

He doesn't suck.

[TheSportsPredictor]

It's a private organization and - short of race, gender or age discrimination - can make the standards of inclusion whatever it wants to. If Sheehan wants to form a competing club for bloggers and start his own Hall of Fame, he should have a ball. I get sick of people bitching about the BBWAA.

Joe Sheehan is not a "blogger". He is one of the founders of Baseball Prospectus, which has grown from a bunch of guys posting on a usenet group to book publishing to a website which has found a way to support itself through a subscription service to a radio program. He writes for that site as well as others. He has a bachelor's degree in journalism from Southern Cal. And he is not me.

We knew that.

He doesn't suck.

He sure doesn't! Pulitzer didn't seem to know it, since he wants Sheehan to start a blogger's club.

[Fenian_Bastard]

I think the BBWAA should be dismantled and that Bob Costas should be in charge of all baseball media.

[BYH]

I think the BBWAA should be dismantled and that Bob Costas should be in charge of all baseball media.

Finally! A voice of reason!

[Alan Greenwood]

"I say these things not to be insulting, but to make clear that the organization, despite its name, is not an organization of American baseball writers."

Since I am full-fledged lurker here and a member of the BBWAA, perhaps I'm out of place to respond. Still. I would like to suggest that whenever someone disclaims something with a "I say these things not to be insulting" sort of statement, they usually are very much trying to be insulting. And it is almost always counterproductive.
My point, speaking as someone who toils for a small paper, is that I have been active in trying to make the BBWAA, at least in my chapter, more inclusionary. I am fully aware that there are those who want it to be a good ol' boys club in which only veterans of major metro newspapers are allowed. I have done battle with such folks. Small steps forward are being made. But there are few worse ways to achieve this than to dismiss newspaper writers as dinosaurs in a dying industry; all that will do is inspire a lot of heels diggning in deeper.
I know Joe Sheehan's work but do not know him, so trying to preach patience is probably an act of futility. But the organization, while tardy, is beginning to recognize the Internet. Spitting in the faces of the older members is not going to make them hatsen the BBWAA's evolution.

[Pulitzer Wannabe]

Look, I don't like the organization's exclusionary practices any more than anybody else. I've witnessed it first-hand. It can be downright juvenile.

Which is why I don't understand why those being left out want to be a part of it so badly. Pool your resources and start a competing organization. Strength in numbers.

[PHINJ]

Well, I suspect that qualified people who actually know a lot about baseball like Rob Neyer and Keith Law want to have the right to fuck up the MVP balloting and HOF just like guys like Bill Conlin.

The BBWAA gave some halfass excuse about Neyer not attending enough games last year. How many games does Bill Conlin attend?

[Pulitzer Wannabe]

Well, I suspect that qualified people who actually know a lot about baseball like Rob Neyer and Keith Law want to have the right to fuck up the MVP balloting and HOF just like guys like Bill Conlin.

The BBWAA gave some halfass excuse about Neyer not attending enough games last year. How many games does Bill Conlin attend?

I'll have to concede that I was being a little too simple-minded. It's not like it's just a cool kids club. There are things on the line - MVP votes and so forth, that are recognized by MLB.

In the local chapter, the manuevering they do to get people in they like and keep people out they don't like is shameful for a group of supposed adults.

[Smasher_Sloan]

BBWAA logic:

Norm MacLean gets a Hall of Fame vote.

Vin Scully doesn't.

[Norman Stansfield]

Imprimatur?

I might actually get off my ass and grab a dictionary for that one.

[markvid]

BBWAA logic:

Norm MacLean gets a Hall of Fame vote.

Vin Scully doesn't.

I never saw why any baseball announcer with 20+ years didn't get a vote.

[hockeybeat]

BBWAA logic:

Norm MacLean gets a Hall of Fame vote.

Vin Scully doesn't.

I never saw why any baseball announcer with 20+ years didn't get a vote.

How does Skeletor get a vote?

[Tom Petty]

"I say these things not to be insulting, but to make clear that the organization, despite its name, is not an organization of American baseball writers."

Since I am full-fledged lurker here and a member of the BBWAA, perhaps I'm out of place to respond. Still. I would like to suggest that whenever someone disclaims something with a "I say these things not to be insulting" sort of statement, they usually are very much trying to be insulting. And it is almost always counterproductive.
My point, speaking as someone who toils for a small paper, is that I have been active in trying to make the BBWAA, at least in my chapter, more inclusionary. I am fully aware that there are those who want it to be a good ol' boys club in which only veterans of major metro newspapers are allowed. I have done battle with such folks. Small steps forward are being made. But there are few worse ways to achieve this than to dismiss newspaper writers as dinosaurs in a dying industry; all that will do is inspire a lot of heels diggning in deeper.
I know Joe Sheehan's work but do not know him, so trying to preach patience is probably an act of futility. But the organization, while tardy, is beginning to recognize the Internet. Spitting in the faces of the older members is not going to make them hatsen the BBWAA's evolution.

well thanks for the insight and perspective. i can only hope you'll post more often.

[markvid]

BBWAA logic:

Norm MacLean gets a Hall of Fame vote.

Vin Scully doesn't.

I never saw why any baseball announcer with 20+ years didn't get a vote.

How does Skeletor get a vote?

Skeletor?

[DownSouthDeskDude]

For BBWAA president Bob Dutton's take on things, here's an interview he did with Joe Poz on Joe's blog:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/12/10/talking-with-the-prez/

[Tom Petty]

BBWAA logic:

Norm MacLean gets a Hall of Fame vote.

Vin Scully doesn't.

I never saw why any baseball announcer with 20+ years didn't get a vote.

How does Skeletor get a vote?

Skeletor?

i think he means this guy:

[Smasher_Sloan]

BBWAA logic:

Norm MacLean gets a Hall of Fame vote.

Vin Scully doesn't.

I never saw why any baseball announcer with 20+ years didn't get a vote.

How does Skeletor get a vote?

Norm's been a BBWAA member since 1978. After 10 years of active membership, anyone gets a Hall of Fame vote for life.

[wickedwritah]

I thought you had to cover a beat regularly to get membership?

[black dude with pompano]

Well, I suspect that qualified people who actually know a lot about baseball like Rob Neyer and Keith Law want to have the right to fuck up the MVP balloting and HOF just like guys like Bill Conlin.

The BBWAA gave some halfass excuse about Neyer not attending enough games last year. How many games does Bill Conlin attend?

But have you seen his condo!?? And don't you know how much he's paid?!??

[slappy4428]

I've found that it usually isn't the beat guys who have the problem (OK, with some it is).
It's the guys who have their 10 in and are still stuck in 1989 and want to keep others at arms length from getting the same privleges they had. I can think of two off the top of my head -- and one is the biggest slob PITA in metro Detroit. I am not surprised when he's living in a van, down by the river...