FINALLY! SJ.com College Football Poll -- FINAL POST-BOWL POLL -- PAGE 48

[Xanadu]

Yeah, and that Louisiana Tech team sure gave LSU a hearty battle late in the season. It's all relative. Kansas has beaten everyone. Undefeated. LSU has a loss. At this point in the season, a team from a BCS conference, which had a national champion 2 years ago, is No. 1. But, Kansas still has the Sooners and Mizzou. This ain't over by a longshot. For now, though, the Blue Bird is No. 1.

[Hackwilson191]

Kansas has beat two teams with a winning record Texas A&M and Cnetral Michigan???

They have "good" wins over Kansas State (5-5), Colorado (5-6), Nebraska (5-6) and Oklahoma State (5-5) ...is this any better than Hawaii???

Yes, but not by much so I keep the Jayhawks at No.7, the AD saw a schedule without Oklahoma, Texas or Texas Tech and scheduled a bunch of loser teams. If he had scheduled 1 other BCS team (like Okie Sate and K-State) I would have a ton more respect for Kansas.

[slappy4428]

Hell has indeed frozen over.
Hawaii and the dreaded BBOC have received first-place votes.

[Mystery Meat]

Hell has indeed frozen over.
Hawaii and the dreaded BBOC have received first-place votes.

Hawaii? Maybe if this was the Outside The Lower 48 Poll.

[Della9250]

A quick insight on my ballot — 1. Kansas, 2. Oregon, 3. LSU, 4. Oklahoma, 5. Arizona State

Everybody in my top 5 last week moved up except Arizona State jumped Hawaii.

Biggest riser — There really wasn't one again, the top 20 teams just shifted around; Biggest Fall — Ohio State from 1 to 8.
Added to the top 25 — Illinois at 22, Tennessee at 23, Wisconsin at 24, South Florida at 25
Dropped from the top 25 — Michigan, Auburn, Alabama, Wake Forest

Other notes: Boston College went from 11 to 16, Hawaii stayed at six, Missouri's at seven, west Virginia at nine and Boise State is up to 12. Florida's my top three loss team at 21.

[IGotQuestions]

Anyone who ranks Kansas in the top 2, and anyone who gives Hawaii a first-place vote ought to be shot. Regardless of the type of schedule the Kansas AD saw, the fact is, they haven't beaten anyone of substance. Just like some of us said a few weeks ago with South Florida, we'll see what Kansas has with Missouri and Oklahoma in their way.

[Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!]

Anyone who ranks Kansas in the top 2, and anyone who gives Hawaii a first-place vote ought to be shot. Regardless of the type of schedule the Kansas AD saw, the fact is, they haven't beaten anyone of substance. Just like some of us said a few weeks ago with South Florida, we'll see what Kansas has with Missouri and Oklahoma in their way.

Why stop at the top 2?*
What makes Kansas better than any of the major conference one-loss teams, including Oklahoma, Missouri, WVU and OSU?

*Assuming you are ranking LSU and Oregon Nos. 1-2 (not necessarily in that order).

[Della9250]

All I knpw is that through 10 games, only 1 BCS team made it undefeated. Will they lose to Missouri? Maybe. Will they lose to Oklahoma? Maybe. But until they do, you are basically saying that because you aren't a name school (like Ohio State up until this past week) you can't get respect or the benefit of the doubt until the regular season is over.

If you want to question Hawaii, by all means. I won't argue that.


Outside of Texas and the fact that Okahoma's already faced Missouri, the Sooners' schedule that much better than Kansas. Miami is a great in name only.

Oklahoma's 4 non-conference opponents -- 1-8, 5-5, 0-10, 7-3 = 13-26
Kansas' 4 non-conference opponents -- 6-4, 2-8, 5-5, 0-9 = 13-26

Throw in the fact that they both played at Colorado and one lost and the other won, that is at least a tie-breaker right now,

[Della9250]

Anyone who ranks Kansas in the top 2, and anyone who gives Hawaii a first-place vote ought to be shot. Regardless of the type of schedule the Kansas AD saw, the fact is, they haven't beaten anyone of substance. Just like some of us said a few weeks ago with South Florida, we'll see what Kansas has with Missouri and Oklahoma in their way.

Why stop at the top 2?*
What makes Kansas better than any of the major conference one-loss teams, including Oklahoma, Missouri, WVU and OSU?

*Assuming you are ranking LSU and Oregon Nos. 1-2 (not necessarily in that order).

Perhaps because in all those cases, except for Missouri, those three teams all lost to teams that aren't ranked. Winning has to count for something. So does losing. Otherwise, none of it matters.

[IGotQuestions]

Because behind Oregon and LSU, it's a lot murkier, IMO. Those two teams clearly are the best based on their "bodies of work" in my opinion. I'll let Kansas, Mizzou and Okla. duke it out before I say one is clearly better than another. For now, I'd give the edge and benefit of doubt to Kansas. Oklahoma looked horrible against freekin Iowa State and mighty average vs. Colorado and Texas.

[TrooperBari]

Anyone who ranks Kansas in the top 2, and anyone who gives Hawaii a first-place vote ought to be shot.

Yeah! Down with differing opinions!!!

[IGotQuestions]

huh?

[dooley_womack1]

Maybe with four losses, Auburn will drop to 20th now.

[Chi City 81]

Maybe with four losses, Auburn will drop to 20th now.

IT'S THE TOUGHEST CONFERENCE IN THE HISTORY OF SPORTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Xanadu]

Before this unpredictable, becoming-magical season in Lawrence, Kansas University had an all-time record of 519-400 against unranked teams. And that kind of record would make any Blue Bird fan proud. But as Blue Bird fans know all too well, like a bullfighter who gets gored in the groin, the Jayhawks' career record, umm, slips, to 542-537 (with some ties) because the Jayhawks, before this unpredictable, becoming-magical season, have a record of 23-137-2 against ranked teams.

But that's neither here nor there. That was then, this is now, thank you very much Emilio Estevez.

In my lifetime of more loneliness than that whacked-out Bell Jar chick, I've watched college football galore. USC always was this Long Beach boy's team. At first the colors attracted me. Then it became fun to root for them when I learned my mom went to UCLA for a few years. Every Sunday morning I read the Press-Telegram, by far the best rag in America, and scanned all the scores, even Dartmouth v. Brown when I had no idea where the hell those schools were; who knew that one day I'd live 5 minutes from Dartmouth and get to know its head coach, who is a great guy and got a raw deal. But I've digressed, again.

Growing up, I could set my watch by another Kansas loss. Goddamn did the Jayhawks suck in the worst ways. As a teen I'd wonder, "Why can the Jayhawks be so good in basketball yet so sucky in football?" And then I'd stop that thought, because do any of you remember some of those USC basketball teams from the 80s? Oy. And yet I always believed Wayne Carlander and Larry Friend and the other Trojan basketballers would win their next game, and the next, even when they kept losing, and losing. And so this is probably how the uber-dedicated Kansas football fans felt week after week, season after season, decade after decade. When you love something like tomorrow will never come, you're willing to sit through the worst of times until the good days arrive.

The great days have arrived in Lawrence, Kansas. But before we can celebrate this unpredictable, becoming-magical season, let's take a quick look back at Kansas football from then to now:

• Kansas played its first game in 1890 -- the team didn't have a coach that year and finished 1-2. The first game in school history was a 22-9 loss at Baker. It got worse: Kansas lost its next game 18-10 ... to the KC YMCA. But the Blue Birds won the season finale in the first home game in school history, paying back those Goddamn Baker Boys 14-12.

• E.M. Hopkins restored order in 1891 and led the team to a 7-0-1 record behind captain John Kenzie. The season began with a 22-8 Halloween coming-on of Missouri, and hence, a rivalry was born.

• No one knows why Hopkins stayed only that one undefeated season, but rumor has it he had an issue with Human Resources, which couldn't resolve a potential sexual harassment suit in 30 minutes or less, so he had to vamoose and never was heard from again.

• But Hopkins' successors, A.W. Shepard, Hector Cowan and Wylie Woodruff, were capable replacements, and the trio from 1982 to 1898 had a combined record of 39-16-1. After a 12-4 loss to Mizzou in 1893, Kansas didn't allow the Tigers a point for the next 3 years.

• Then came the -- perhaps not unpredictable, but nevertheless magical -- season of 1899 under the legendary helm of Fielding Yost, whose team went 10-0. The Jayhawks beat Haskell (12-0), Washburn (35-0), Ottawa (29-6), Drake (29-5), Haskell again (18-0), Ottawa again (29-0), Emporia State (35-0), Nebraska (36-20), Washburn (23-0) and Mizzou (34-6). Like Hopkins, Yost disappeared after his only -- and undefeated -- season in Lawrence. What is it with undefeated Kansas coaches leaving after one season? I mean, you definitely leave 'em wanting more; kind of like Daria (dammit, MTV, you left too many unanswered questions).

• With the turn of the century, fortunes turned for the worse in Lawrence. Chucky Boynton replaced Yost, and the 1900 Jayhawks went 2-5-2, but at least didn't lose to Mizzou; though they didn't win, either -- they tied 6-6.

In the 105-plus seasons since then, Kansas football has been an afterthought even though a career record of 542-537 and some ties instead suggests a modicum of success. But, you just can't overlook that record of 23-137-2 against ranked teams since 1936. Here are more looks into KU Footballery:

• In my 25 years or so of watching college football, Kansas has played in 5 bowl games: 1981 Hall of Fame (lost to Mississippi State 10-0), 1992 Aloha (beat BYU 23-20), 1995 Aloha (beat UCLA 51-30; this was the unexpected 10-2 season I remember. Also memorable because coach Glen Mason told his team he was leaving for another job but changed his mind the night before the game, so the team went out and Bootsed the Bruins), 2003 Tangerine (lost to North Carolina State 56-26), and Fort Worth (beat Houston 42-13).

• Kansas is 4-6 all-time in bowl games. That's 10 bowls, ever ... BUT, the Jayhawks beat Rice 33-7 in the '61 Bluebonnet Bowl, which is one of my favorite-named bowls for reasons I can't even explain. They really ought to reinstate that bowl.

• Kansas is 1-12 against No. 1 teams, the lone win coming -- DRUM ROLL, PLEASE -- on Nov. 19, 1960 against Mizzou (23-7). The Jayhawks had a stud backfield of John Hadl, Curtis McClinton, Doyle Schick and Bert Coan. Badasses, for sure. But wait! There's more: Kansas had to forfeit that win because it later became known that Coan received a free plane ride to a college All Star game, courtesy of a KU alum. So, Kansas really is 0-13 against No. 1 teams. And Mizzou fans from 1960 can sleep a little better tonight.

• Don't snicker too much Mizzoulians: Of the Jayhawks' 23 wins against ranked teams, 7 are against you. Others Kansas wins against ranked teams include, and it pains me a little to write this, No. 10 USC in 1983 (at USC, no less, 26-20), and back-to-back wins (the only time in school history) in 1995 against No. 4 Colorado (40-24) and No. 15 Oklahoma (38-17).

• On Oct. 27, 1984, Kansas beat No. 2 Oklahoma 28-11. The next ranked team Kansas played was Nebraska two weeks later. The Jayhawks lost 41-7, and that began a streak of 27 straight losses to ranked teams.

• One of Kansas' successful head coaches was A.R. Kennedy (52-9-4) from 1904-1910, and yet others who passed through the quiet burg of Lawrence include Bob Valesente (4-17-1) in 1986 and '87. The last coach to leave Kansas with a winning record was Jack Mitchell, 44-42-5, from 1958 to 1966.

• Before this unpredictable, becoming-magical season, Kansas' record on TV since 1996 was 9-34.

• Kansas football was an early pioneer in that Ed Harvey, a black man, played on the 1893 squad. Unfortunately, 62 years passed before another black man played at Kansas, Homer Floyd, in 1955. He led the Blue Birds in rushing 3 years in a row and later played in the CFL for the Edmonton Eskimos.

• In 1963, Gayle Sayers -- arguably the greatest running back of all time, depending who you ask -- scored on a 99-yard touchdown run at Nebraska. Only 4 players in college history have done that, including Eric Vann (another KU alum).

So, that's just a little history I stole from the KU Media Guide. Why would I go through all that trouble to learn about the Jayhawks' fair-to-middlin' history? Don't know. But it wasn't trouble. You're never too old to learn something new. Plus, I'm intrigued to know why the only two undefeated coaches in school history left after just one season.

Some folks here at SJ.com aren't giving credence to the Jayhawks' record this year. It's a regional thing, no doubt. SEC cum-slurpers fanboys say Kansas ain't played a team worth its shit-stained 'draws. Yeah, LSU, tough game you scheduled  against La. Tech late in the season. Woo-doggie! That's how you schedule 'em, boys! Yeeeee-hawwww! Big-Ten anal-reamers fanboys still argue last  year's Michigan team should play in this year's national championship because it gave up 50 points to Ohio State. Yeeeee-hawwwww! Go Michigan, giver-upper of 37 at Wiscy this year! (and not forgetting that little home debacle against Appalachian State). You don't hear too much homering from Pac-10 fans because we're laid back anyway. But I've digressed.

Kansas in 2007 is 10-0. Won at home or in-state through the first 5 weeks yet folks here said they ain't played out of state. Well, they came all over Colorado in Boulder. Then they seeded on Oklahoma State in Stillwater, another tough place to play, even with a QB whose mama feeds him chicken while he talks on the cell phone. As long as SEC cum-slurpers argue Kansas ain't done played nobody, I'll throw Louisiana Tech back in their face. Kansas has beaten every team it has played, handily, at home, on the road, leading the nation in scoring. LSU couldn't even beat Kentucky!

People here will say, "Oh, LSU would KILL Kansas." But how do you know that? Some might say, thank you very much, Oasis, that "Oregon would quack the Jayhawks back into 1899." But how do you know that? We don't. What we do know, my friends, is that Kansas is undefeated this late in the season. Oregon is not. LSU is not. Neither is West Virginny, Oklahoma nor, gulp, Mizzou.

That's why Kansas, yes, Kansas, is No. 1 in America this week for me. Now the Blue Bird Whose Cock Everybody Is Sucking has to prove it bigtime during the next two weeks against Iowa State and Mizzou.

Never in my wildest dreams, thank you very much, Willy Wonka, did I expect Kansas University Jayhawks Footballery to be ever-devastasting in this wild, wooly, unpredictable becoming-magical season. I'm not a new Kansas fanboy, not in the least. But it brings me joy, like a boy seeing Hanukah candlelight for the first time, when a team like the Jayhawks destroys everyone's myths and expectations of what a great team is.

In 2007, the Jayhawks are a great team. They really are. And No. 1.

1, The Blue Bird Whose Cock Everybody Is Sucking
2, LSU
3, Oregon
4, West Virginny
5, Oklahoma
6, Mizzou
7, USC
8, Ohio State
9, Georgia
10, Texas
11, Florida
12, Arizona State
13, Virginny Tech
14, Clemson
15, Illinois
16, Boise State
17, Virginia
18, Cincinnati
19, Tennessee
20, Hawai'i
21, Wisconsin
22, Boston College
23, Kentucky
24, Michigan
25, Penn State

[buckweaver]

Puff, puff ... pass.

[Chi City 81]

You're fuckin' up the rotation!

[dooley_womack1]

No mention of Tony Sands? That was a Mizzou low point.

[buckweaver]

Seriously, X-man: That was awesome.

Learned more about KU football in those 5 minutes than ever before.

(And seriously again: I'll have whatever you're having. )

[dooley_womack1]

I have seen KU on TV about three times this season. They seem to be for real. They have an offense of constant motion that almost always leaves at least one receiver wide open downfield. And Reesing is an elusive moving target at quarterback. McAnderson and Sharp snap off enough solid runs to keep the defense honest. The KU defense doesn't really look that special, tho that one star cornerback (forgot the name) limits opponents' options.

Kansas can be beat much the way Missouri can be beat: Dominate on the pass rush and make enough stops on defense, because you should be able to score a decent amount of the time. Missouri has been tested marginally more than Kansas (the Oklahoma game was much closer than the score indicated), but Kansas has taken care of business authoritatively against the hand they've been dealt. I think the showdown rates as a tossup at this point.

[kingcreole]

First of all, it's puff, puff, GIVE.

Second of all, as a Kansas alum, had a Nebraska friend ask me Saturday night, "What's it like to be 10-0?"

I said, "It's the same feeling you would have if Nebraska basketball would ever start 25-0."

He looked at me with a strange, "That could never happen" look before laughing with understanding.

[buckweaver]

First of all, it's puff, puff, GIVE.

Not where I'm from.

[kingcreole]

First of all, it's puff, puff, GIVE.

Not where I'm from.

 

[slappy4428]

By SLAPPY 4428
SJ.COM POLLMASTER

Today, boys and girls, we play a resounding game of figure the odds. It has nothing to do with horses, however, although the head coach of one of the candidates looks as if he's eaten one.

But we're going to figure out which of the title contenders have a shot at playing in New Orleans on March 15 or whenever FOX says the BCS NCG is played.

LSU -- Instead of SEC bashing, I'm going to say nothing but good things about the Tigers (It's not the contenders I have a problem with; it's the wannabees and usetabees). They don't screw up and they're dancing with beads on. They should beat the Piggies in two weeks and if they lose to Ogre next week, they should be dropped from the poll for General Principal and Major Disaster. ODDS: 2-1

Oregon -- No, not Orgeron, Oregon. Yeah, the Ducks. The same Ducks with those Phil Knight-meets-Tim Burton jerseys. The same Ducks that came into the Big House and slapped Michigan around like no team had since the week before. I like the odds here, but the team that could bite the Ducks in the tail feathers is UCLA. Yeah, that UCLA. They screwed up Charlie Weis's perfect season, beat Cal and lost at Arizona, which is like losing to Guatemala. No Pac-10 Championship game will hurt, because out of sight is out of mind, but it won't matter. ODDS: 5-2.

West Virginia -- Yeah, I know they lost early, and they should have bounced back by now from that stupid loss to South Florida. But in many eyes, they haven't and here's why: The Big East has proved itself to be the Wisconsin of college conferences. Look like good teams early, gaudy records against Western Michigan. Buffalo, Norfolk State and Maine, then they played each other and basically cut each others throats. (I mean how impressive do you have to be to beat Syracuse?) I really think if they win out by a 21-point margin, it's not enough. ODDS: 10-1

Ohio State -- HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. ODDS: 25-1.

Hawaii -- I'll be serious for a second. June Jones. Nice coaching staff, but I've seen Space Cowboys and Wild Hogs. I need to see no more old-guy-make-good-one-last-time movies. Win out and a BCS poll is possible. Title game? Hope for Miami. ODDS: 25-1.

The Big 12: Kansas, Oklahoma and Missouri -- Every few years this happens, one conference has three good teams and only two head to BCS games for contractual reasons. Inside track is Oklahoma but at Texas Tech and against Okie State is tough. Missouri gets through the Kansases and another shot at Oklahoma and that turned out poorly the first time. Kansas? It's been a fun season, but they grab the throat soon in a self-fulfilling prophecy, since they haven't won or shared a league title since the Missouri Compromise when they beat Eddie Haskell and the Ottawa Senators (See: Xanadu's fanboy revisionist history post above). I think Missouri thumps Kansas because an already tight 36-inch collar gets tighter, and one of the Mikes bags Oklahoma. Then Gary Pinkel reverts to form in the Big 12 title game and none of the three go to the BCS title game. ODDS: 10-1 (field bet).

But that's just me.



SJ.COM COLLEGE FOOTBALL POLL
11/12/2007
RK. TEAM (1st)              PTS   Last
1. LSU (24)                   858   2
2. Oregon (4)                825   3
3. Oklahoma (1)             787   4
4. Kansas (4)                785   5
5. West Virginia  (1)       724   6
6. Missouri                    699   7
7. Ohio State                635   1
8. Georgia                     595   11
9. Arizona State             575   8
10. Hawaii  (1)               543   10
11. Virginia Tech            514   12
12. Southern Cal            505   13
13. Texas                     488   16
14. Florida                    396   17
15. Clemson                  303   20
tie. Boise St.                 303   19
17. Virginia                    301   22
18. Boston College          293   9
19. Tennessee               243   23
20. Illinois                     219   NR
21. Cincinnati                176   NR
22. Kentucky                 140   24
23. Michigan                  136   15
24. Wisconsin                109   NR
25. Connecticut               83   14

Also receiving votes: Penn State 49; Auburn 23; BYU 23; South Florida 16; California 9; Navy 5; Mississippi St. 3; Air Force 2.

SJ.com College Football Poll committee: Slappy4428 (chairman), Oz, The Good Doctor, Elliotte Friedman, Hockeybeat, Starman, Eagleboy, Hank Scorpio, Sportschick, Mystery Meat, Barsuk, WS, Della9250, Mayfly, Xanadu, dparker85, Gutter, Buckweaver, sxysprtswrtr, Orville Redenbacher, spnited, Idaho, Amraeder, Joel Hammond, Precious Roy, HackWilson191, OJ1414, BYH, AgatePage, Piotr Rasputin, Rufino, Trooper Bari,  Jesus_Muscatel, GB-Hack; Precious Roy. (MIA: none; Withdrawn: Micropolitan Guy, Beanpole)

[Chi City 81]

For the record, I'm not the one who voted WVU No. 1.

EDIT: Good work this week, slap.