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Bill Simmons, trending.

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Azrael, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That is a gross simplification — and just a wrong characterization — of me. No, I don’t see everything as “some sort of widget in an economic model.” I was not talking about a “model” of any sort when I posted; I’m not prescribing things for anyone else. I am not the one trying to design, or model, things to fit objectives of my making. Such as dictating to others what is culturally important and not simply expecting people to gravitate toward what they find valuable on their own and letting that demand send the signals about what is valuable and what isn’t.

    When I look at you, I see you. If I read something you wrote, I judge the work on its merits. Same thing with Dave Portnoy, who I happen to pay very little attention to because, well, let’s just say I’m not interested. Same thing with Wesley Morris, whose film stuff I always thought was really good, and I am not a film guy at all. I have gravitated to his stuff for years when I came anywhere near it, because I thought he was a really talented writer (in a way I am actually envious of).

    That is the “model” I follow. Let people decide what they like for themselves. If you’re good and what you are doing interests me, you win me over. Of course when I look at Wesley Morris I see a black writer. But his work is his work for me, and if I thought he wasn’t very good, his work would be about equal in my mind to any other writer who I don’t think is very good. … white, hispanic, middle eastern, whatever. If most people felt the same way about his work not being very good, my “model” if I had one, would be that he’s in the wrong profession. … as demonstrated by people deciding for themselves. If lots of people love something that I don’t care for, or that I don’t get, then that demand should determine its viability, not whether I personally get it or not.

    That is my “model.” It’s not that characterization of me you posted.

    I agree, that the broad discussion going on right now should be about who gets opportunities. But that wasn’t what you posted, at least in my reading of it, which was why I responded the way I did. You went on that “cultural value” and “bottom line” tangent, and the suggestion I took from it — I thought you spelled it out, actually — was that (and forgive me, I don’t listen to these podcasts) Wesley Morris shouldn’t have his job podcasting because he offers great stuff about Aretha Franklin (or whatever other stuff he talks about) that has attracted and has retained an audience that comes back over and over again to hear him. … no, we need Wesley Morris whether or not he ever attracts an audience, and if the audience doesn’t get that on their own, it’s up to someone to keep exposing them to him until they do get it.

    And yeah, that did rub me wrong. In the context of race, I find it condescending, and even though my experience talking about this with others is anecdotal, it annoys the living hell out of a lot of black men at least, who have run into it. Nobody likes being condescended to that way.

    Equality of opportunity is something that is really important to me, because that economic widget stuff you read into my posts on here, can actually be boiled down to my wanting things to succeed based on their merits — as judged by each of us individually, creating an aggregate picture. And if we don’t have a level playing field, we can’t have the meritocracy I think that leads to, which I think is the most moral thing there is.

    That is obviously an ideal, because when it comes to race, you can not force people to give up their bigotry. Just as people have all kinds of biases that play into what they like and what they don’t like. Which is why the best you can do is to make sure that there is nothing institutionalized that makes the playing field unlevel. And then hope that the battle of ideas fights bigotry as well as possible.

    I think part of where these conversations go astray is that a lot of people do not stop at equality of opportunity. I get it, because it’s not an expediently satisfying thing, and if you look around and see, for example, that Bon Appetit (to bring in that other thread) has an editorial masthead that is pretty white (with connected people from the same schools at the top) the temptation is to decide to just color code it better with some quotas to change things quickly, even if it means doing it without regard for who has paid their dues, who is most qualified, etc.

    This can be problematic when you have an industry such as the media industry that for various reasons does not attract the number of people from certain races to meet the kinds of quotas it then becomes about. Which maybe is a different discussion.

    Regardless, if the point had simply been that Wesley Morris shouldn’t be denied opportunities to succeed because of the color of his skin (has he?), I wouldn't have responded the way I did.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
    WriteThinking likes this.
  2. sgreenwell

    sgreenwell Well-Known Member

    With regards to The Ringer in particular, and podcasts in general, part of evaluating Simmons' statements on "open mic night" and what not is that we lack any information, on the outside, about the validity of them. How substantial is the difference between the Simmons, Ryan and Fennessey "Rewatchables" crew vs. another one? I imagine they might know internally, but I have a sneaking suspicion that a good part of that particular issue is that Simmons just *likes* doing a lot of the movies himself, and wants to dictate what they do episodes on. Like, they've done episodes on "Fletch" and "Draft Day" and "Godfather III." Simmons has been on the last nine episodes, and 19 of the last 20.

    Regarding giving a shot to others - I think the best organizations, obviously, nourish "growing" talents by using established talents to bring in revenue, whether we're talking newspapers, professional wrestling, ESPN or the movie industry. Simmons got his break at ESPN because they started Page Two, which was an attempt to get more statistical and satirical takes on the website beyond the by-the-numbers sports coverage they mostly had at ESPN.com. At least from the outside looking in, I don't think the Ringer has done as well of a job at hiring people with potential, or, nourishing the people they have hired - chicken and egg problem as to the cause, but still.
     
  3. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    This is an excellent post, and explains much of the reason for problems in any discussion or problem-solving efforts in regard to racial matters.

    That is , whether someone is white, or black, or any other race seems to be all that matters in them, and that is simply not a true or correct representation, or reason -- for much of anything, really. It is, as The Big Ragu says, a gross oversimplification of matters, and people, and their motivations and influencing factors.

    The way I sensed The Big Ragu thinking/feeling in this post is exactly how I've been thinking/feeling lately every time I read the words "white privilege." They're condescending, insulting uninformed -- and therefore very ineffectual in any discussion such as this -- in a way that is difficult to explain, or separate from simply being "white," but they don't make me want to jump in and try to solve any issues, that's for sure.
     
  4. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

     
  5. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    "Nephew Kyle" was called "Kyle" in the latest podcast.
     
  6. Patchen

    Patchen Well-Known Member

    I have great respect for what Simmons did as a trail-blazer, promoter of talent (such as Zach Lowe) and content genius who did impressive things. I enjoy his content because I love the NBA and I can tolerate the deep dives into obscure topics, such as the 2007 draft. I don't buy him as "first writer to use pop culture references" and his Celtics references and obsessive need to rank "top 6 comedy moments involving karaoke since 1990" are a needle scratch. The weakest part of the Ringer is that it is too often Clever Person Watches on TV and Writes" and there's no real reporting. As Dan O'Shaugnessy pointed out, it's not ideal over the long haul for getting information. The Ringer is part of the parasitic ecosystem that punishes local reporters and rewards that kind of platform.

    I hope he hires in a better way and keeps improving. He is much better than Barstool and some of the other mass-appeal sports content areas.
     
  7. 3_Octave_Fart

    3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

    Is it possible Simmons resides on the autism spectrum?
     
    Sports Barf likes this.
  8. Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Member

    Agree. Also, print-wise, too many lists, too many boring awards and signing stories, to much previewing and rehashing of games and not enough human-interest stories on the athletes who actually play the games (when they're playing them, that is). This, by the way, is an excellent time for human interest because there's little else compelling to write.
     
  9. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

    Simmons (and everything he touches) reminds me of the book/movie Ready Player One, where a guy hides a fortune using clues from pop culture he deemed relevant, 1980s music, video games and Dungeons and Dragons lore. So the whole world, trying to solve the mystery and find the treasure, becomes obsessed strictly with the things this guy decided to be “cool.”

    The Ringer lacks diversity? Gee, maybe it’s because everyone there obsess over whatever Simmons thought was cool 25 years ago.

    You’d have to be a moron to go to a job interview with him without conjuring up some faux creative take on a 3-(of 5)-star 90s movie, a recent HBO series 2% of the country watched or whether or not the actual result of a big game is changed when you decide to record the game at home while attending the game in person.

    Anyway, gotta to rewatch “Can’t Hardly Wait.”
     
  10. stix

    stix Well-Known Member

    That's also because nobody likes reading anymore.

    If it's not a shiny list or more than 280 characters, you don't have much of an audience anymore.
     
  11. BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo

    BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo Well-Known Member

    And also because there are no more staffs and no more pages, so what else can you do except lists and the bare minimum w/stories?
     
  12. Sports Barf

    Sports Barf Well-Known Member

    You must have missed the SportsCentury special on Tyrone Willingham
     
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